# So I finally watched Firefly/Serenity **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2006, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678 "2006-09-22T05:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/81 "2006-09-25T17:35:20Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] I agree. That’s probably one of the reason’s that I never watched it. One look at the opening credits and I was all like “great..Star Trek or Stargate DS9 with cowboys…Stupid” I think to have any kind of success, most sci fi shows really need to be on the SciFi Channel. Or they need a new Stuff That Doesn’t Suck Network that can run shows like Arrested Development, Firefly and Andy Richter Controls the Universe. [/QUOTE] You do know they’re recasting the Sci-Fi channel? I guess too many ‘weather related event’ and ‘mutated gooey animal’ movies gave them the idea to follow Spike. (Remember…The Nashville Network?!) ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/82 "2006-09-25T17:54:09Z")
Just thought I’d drop in to mention, for you Firefly addicts, that Morena Baccarin is making guest appearances on Stargate-SG1 this season (season is currently on a break, resumes in January). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/83 "2006-09-25T19:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] I must have been drunk when I replied to you before, because I missed your implicit slander of Alyson Hannigan. ::pulls glove off hand, slaps **dropzone** in the kisser:: SWORDS AT DAWN, Sir! [/QUOTE] Sorry, sir, but as the challenged (and I take “challenged” to a new level) I get to choose the weapons and I choose sawed-off shotguns. Would you prefer a more explicit slander of Ms Hannigan? She’s cute as a button but she’s a TERRIBLE actor. Purely awful. Makes SMG look like Ethel Barrymore, or even Drew Barrymore. And speaking of SMG’s looks, why did she get that nosejob? Her adorable Jewish Chick nose wasn’t limiting her to ethnic roles. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/84 "2006-09-25T21:06:21Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Unfortunately, some of the actors (I’ll single out Morena Baccarin specifically, though she was hardly the only one) who managed to routinely fumble well-written lines with flat or off-cue delivery. The one I thought was cringe-worthy was the actress who played Zoe. She was supposed to be a fast gun and if you watch her she is totally awkward in any scene where she should be just the opposite. Also, in that scene where they are laughing about the sergeant who had his mustache shaved off she is completely and utterly unbelievable. And I LOVE the theme song, so there! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/85 "2006-09-25T22:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ghanima] The one I thought was cringe-worthy was the actress who played Zoe. She was supposed to be a fast gun and if you watch her she is totally awkward in any scene where she should be just the opposite. Also, in that scene where they are laughing about the sergeant who had his mustache shaved off she is completely and utterly unbelievable. [/QUOTE] Without naming names, I’d say that about half the cast were good-to-excellent actors (at least, in the roles they played) and the other half were, charitably speaking, passable. It didn’t help that the dialog, while often clever, required exacting timing to come off right. Regarding the theme song: I don’t mind the fiddle and harmonic Western-style of it (which goes along nicely with the motif of the show) but the lyrics are clunky at best. Whedon can craft dialog pretty well, but a songwriter he is not. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/86 "2006-09-25T22:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] Regarding the theme song: I don’t mind the fiddle and harmonic Western-style of it (which goes along nicely with the motif of the show) but the lyrics are clunky at best. Whedon can craft dialog pretty well, but a songwriter he is not. Stranger [/QUOTE] You wouldn’t be saying that if Firefly had stayed on the air long enough for the musical episode: **Once More… With Reavers!** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/87 "2006-09-25T23:03:12Z")
Feeding Coulter to the sharks won’t work: professional courtesy and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/88 "2006-09-25T23:59:17Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Sorry, sir, but as the challenged (and I take “challenged” to a new level) I get to choose the weapons and I choose sawed-off shotguns. [/quote] :: shrugging :: Choose whatever weapon you want. Given that I’m all evil & stuff, I always planned to unleash my hordes of genetically engineered, etc. winged monkeys on you. > [@](#): > > Would you prefer a more explicit slander of Ms Hannigan? She’s cute as a button but she’s a TERRIBLE actor. Purely awful. Makes SMG look like Ethel Barrymore, or even Drew Barrymore. Joseph Stalin said that to me once. _Once._ > [@](#): > > And speaking of SMG’s looks, why did she get that nosejob? Her adorable Jewish Chick nose wasn’t limiting her to ethnic roles. Is that what happened? I thought I’d noticed a change in her appearance from the first days of Buffy to Scooby Doo, but I wasn’t interested enough in her to be sure. Now if you’ll excuse me I have a wave motion gun to aim your way. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/89 "2006-09-26T00:01:02Z")
[QUOTE=cerberus] Feeding Coulter to the sharks won’t work: professional courtesy and all that. [/QUOTE] Well, in the first place, Coulter isn’t a shark; she’s a weasel. In the second place, naturally my sharks are MIND-CONTROLLED. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/90 "2006-09-26T01:08:03Z")
Ok, so clue me in, who has them all on his HDD but has not yet watched them: What order should I watch the shows on? (and no, I didn’t download them illegally. A friend ripped them, and made me solemnly vow that if I liked them, I would buy the set. I agreed.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/91 "2006-09-26T01:15:22Z")
The order Joss made them to be in. The pilot, then the episodes in order (not telecast order), then _Serenity_. Repeat. Cry. Watch again and vow vengeance on those who ruined the Dream. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/92 "2006-09-26T01:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=Tristan] Ok, so clue me in, who has them all on his HDD but has not yet watched them: What order should I watch the shows on? (and no, I didn’t download them illegally. A friend ripped them, and made me solemnly vow that if I liked them, I would buy the set. I agreed.) [/QUOTE] The two-hour episode, called, confusingly enough, “Serenity” is what you should watch first. Go on to the ‘Train Job’ and the other episodes as broadcast. Lastly the movie. ---
**Author:** ![gardentraveler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gardentraveler/32/3576_2.png) [@gardentraveler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gardentraveler)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/93 "2006-09-26T01:32:02Z")
**Tristan** , [this page](http://browncoats.com/index.php?ContentID=42e6e07e26933) has info on the order they were intended to be watched in as well as the U.S, broadcast order. (The list is toward the bottom of the page…) GT P.S. I liked the song too. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/94 "2006-09-26T01:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] The two-hour episode, called, confusingly enough, “Serenity” is what you should watch first. Go on to the ‘Train Job’ and the other episodes as broadcast. Lastly the movie. [/QUOTE] Well, not as broadcast. Apparantly Fox managed to muck even that up, wanting to limit the spaces between action-packed episodes without concern for the plot. I _think_ the DVDs have the correct viewing order. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/95 "2006-09-26T10:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Well, not as broadcast. Apparantly Fox managed to muck even that up, wanting to limit the spaces between action-packed episodes without concern for the plot. I _think_ the DVDs have the correct viewing order. [/QUOTE] One of us is right. The other is wrong. Sadly, the one latter is I. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/96 "2006-09-26T10:03:37Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] One of us is right. The other is wrong. Sadly, the **one latter is** I. [/QUOTE] :smack: The _latter one is I_. Do you think Aslan is trying to tell me tog et to work and stop screwing around on the Dope? ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/97 "2006-09-26T13:25:32Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] -…corrupt oppressive governments [/QUOTE] The government really isn’t that corrupt or oppressive. Yes, there are nasty elements; however, you’ve got a massive organization spanning several solar systems and in any organization that size, there’ll be cloistered bodies of people who can end up being up to no good. The Iran-Contra scandal didn’t justify the indictment of the whole U.S. governmental system. Most of the corruption comes from those _outside_ the government! p.s. One of the funniest out takes ever is on the _Serenity_ DVD. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/98 "2006-09-26T13:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Serenity was way better than I expected (not a huge fan of Firefly). It was particularly fascinating watching it, as I did, right after Alien Resurrection, written by a much younger Joss Whedon. To see his themes at two different levels of maturity and polish. [/QUOTE] _City of Lost Children_ had the same director as _Alien: Resurrection_, and is one of my favorite movies. Unfortunately, the director appears to be an asshole, both from interviews with Whedon and interviews with the director himself. [This interview sheds some light on Whedon’s involvement with Alien: Resurrection](http://www.infocusmag.com/05augustseptember/whedonuncut.htm): > [@](#): > > \*\*I thought your original screenplay for “Alien: Resurrection” was brilliant – with its epic final battle on Earth, for Earth – and vastly more engrossing than what ultimately made its way to the screen. I have to assume there were budgetary issues, because I can’t imagine another reason anyone would tinker with it. \*\* > Well, let me ask you something. This ending that took place on Earth. What happened in it? Where did it take place? > > \*\*It took place in a forest … \*\* > Yes. Oh wow. That’s the first one. There were five. And it was always either “the director had a vision” or they had a budget issue. And as a script doctor I’ve been called in more than a few times, and the issue is always the same: “We want you to make the third act more exciting and cheaper.” And my response inevitably is, “The problem with the third act is the first two acts.” This response is never listened to. I usually walk away having gotten one or two jokes into a script and made some money and feeling like I am just bereft of life. It’s horrible. The exceptions were “Toy Story” and “Speed,” where they actually let me do something. > > In the case of “Alien: Resurrection,” they decided to spend their money in other places than going to Earth. And I just kept saying, “The reason people are here is we’re going to do the thing we’ve never done; we’re gonna go to Earth.” But there were a lot of things that we hadn’t done that we ended up not doing because of a singular lack of vision. > > But rather than go into all of the reasons why “Alien: Resurrection” is disappointing to me, I will tell you that, yes, I wrote five endings. The first one was in the forest with the flying threshing machine. The second one was in a futuristic junkyard. The third one was in a maternity ward. > > And the fourth one was in the desert. Now at this point this had become about money, and I said, “You know, the desert looks like Mars. That’s not Earth; that’s not going to give people that juice.” But I still wrote them the best ending I could that took place in the desert. And then finally they said, “Y’knowww, we just don’t think we need to go to Earth.” So I just gave them dialogue and stuff, but I don’t remember writing, “A withered, granny-lookin’ Pumkinhead-kinda-thing makes out with Ripley.” Pretty sure that stage direction never existed in any of my drafts. > > \*\*Given that you’ve described your experience on “Alien: Resurrection” as something of a personal Vietnam, is there irony to the fact that your feature directorial debut also centers on a crew of in-over-their-heads space-criminals? \*\* > Somebody pointed that out to me, the similarity between Serenity and the Betty [“Alien Ressurection’s” spaceship], and it just stopped me in my tracks. I was like, “Yes, my pony did its trick again!” I really never thought of it until somebody pointed it out to me. But the irony goes further than I could have imagined because we shot it on the same stages at Fox where they shot “Alien: Resurrection.” In fact, Serenity was built over the pit that they dug for “Alien: Resurrection” for the underwater sequence. > > The history of “Alien: Resurrection” is fairly twisted also because I wrote a 30-page treatment for a different movie. They wanted to do a movie with a clone of Newt [the little girl from “Aliens”] as their heroine. Because I’d done some action movies and I’d done “Buffy,” they said, “Well, he can write teenage girls and he can write action, so let’s give him a shot.” The franchise was pretty much dead, and I wrote the treatment and they said, “This is really exciting. We want to get back in this business. But we want Ripley. So throw this out.” That one was probably my favorite; I think it was a better-structured story than the one I ultimately wrote. So yeah, you’re right that Whedon was a lot more mature and polished when he wrote _Serenity_–but when comparing the two, it seems to me that the degree of control he had over the movie is even more important than the stage of his life during which he wrote the script. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/99 "2006-09-26T18:44:56Z")
> [@](#): > > The government really isn’t that corrupt or oppressive. Yes, there are nasty elements; however, you’ve got a massive organization spanning several solar systems and in any organization that size, there’ll be cloistered bodies of people who can end up being up to no good. The Iran-Contra scandal didn’t justify the indictment of the whole U.S. governmental system. Most of the corruption comes from those outside the government! OK, I’ll leave aside things like the Miranda experiment, and the general governmental apathy of the Reavers once they existed, since those arguably could be the result of a few bad apples. And it’s never quite clear whether the war was one of secession or conquest, and it probably depends somewhat on who you’re asking. But we’re also talking about a 'verse where it’s profitable to smuggle cattle and matrushka dolls. OK, the Lassiter, that was smuggle-worthy, and the stolen drugs, of course. I’ll even give a pass on the ration bars in the pilot, since those were presumably military-issue. But when livestock and toys aren’t even being sold on the open market, that tells me that there was some serious institutional corruption permeating the government. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678/100 "2006-09-26T19:13:14Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] OK, I’ll leave aside things like the Miranda experiment, and the general governmental apathy of the Reavers once they existed, since those arguably could be the result of a few bad apples. And it’s never quite clear whether the war was one of secession or conquest, and it probably depends somewhat on who you’re asking. But we’re also talking about a 'verse where it’s profitable to smuggle cattle and matrushka dolls. OK, the Lassiter, that was smuggle-worthy, and the stolen drugs, of course. I’ll even give a pass on the ration bars in the pilot, since those were presumably military-issue. But when livestock and toys aren’t even being sold on the open market, that tells me that there was some serious institutional corruption permeating the government. [/QUOTE] Indeed, corruption seems widespread, rampant, and tolerated. The Alliance may have high ideals, but they seem to attract the basest element (at least, in law enforcement and local government), along side the officious, bureaucratic pugheads. And the central government seems to be both nonrepresentative and secretive. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-watched-firefly-serenity/373678.md?page=6)