# So...I have a counterfeit $20 in my pocket **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 9, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897 "2008-01-09T20:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/61 "2008-01-10T17:43:05Z")
I have a $20 CDN bill that I know is counterfeit. I’ve had people put it in the counterfeit detectors in shops, etc., and only one of the machines caught it. I haven’t asked my bank to check it, though. I’ve had 2 counterfeit $5s, both pretty poor quality, that I got in payment. The guy gives our driver a pile of $5s and $10s and I don’t know if he knows he’s _passing queer_ or not. I’ve told him about it and since I got snarky the second time we haven’t had another. When I deposited the cash, both times my bank’s cash counter caught the bills and kept them and of course we were out the money. What they did with the bills I don’t know, we don’t have the Secret Service in Canada. I’m going to ask today, now I’m curious. I like the terminology for making or passing counterfeit: you are “uttering” it. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/62 "2008-01-10T17:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] What does it look like? Does it seem false or fake to you? Can you post a pic? I’ve never seen one. [/QUOTE] If you are curious, next time you are in downtown Chicago stop by the Fed Reserve Bank on the W side of LaSalle N of Jackson. They have a neat little museum there with plenty of information and several examples of counterfeit bills. They also have a box containing $1 million, just in case you wondered what it looks like! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/63 "2008-01-10T17:58:52Z")
[QUOTE=tremorviolet] Even if the PH manager had not explicitly mentioned counterfeits, she might still have been freaked out by the $20 and want to get rid of it. (that’s exactly what happened to my mom that I mentioned in my other post, the girl at the grocery had taken it, was scared and passed it on) That’s why the OP should go to the SS. They’ll talk to the bank and the PH girl and, if it was her, figure out where she got it from. Counterfeiting is taken very seriously and they will try to track the bill all the way back to the source. [/QUOTE] When I was a teller, Loss Prevention told us scare stories about tellers being fired for not wanting to be caught holding a counterfeit that they missed and trying to pass it on. Never saw it happen, but it is easy to understand. It is not bright, but it is human nature - they’ll risk getting fired to avoid a sure reprimand. Poor risk/reward tradeoff, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/64 "2008-01-10T19:40:49Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] You’re missing something. If the OP _merely claimed_ that the 20 came out of the ATM the teller could match the serial number of the fake with all the serial numbers that actually came out of the machine. If there is a match what are the odds that it _didn’t_ come from that ATM? Conversely, if it didn’t match the serial numbers of any bills in the ATM then the OP should have been detained. [/QUOTE] Here again, you are assuming that the bank keeps a list of the serial numbers of the several thousand bills in each of their ATM’s. They don’t. Or at least, they didn’t when I worked at a Bank holding company. Why would they? Just more records to keep, for no benefit. * * * If you ever want to figure out if a bank does something, ask yourself ‘will they make more money by doing this?’ Unless the answer is yes, the bank won’t be doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/65 "2008-01-10T19:42:28Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] Here again, you are assuming that the bank keeps a list of the serial numbers of the several thousand bills in each of their ATM’s. They don’t. Or at least, they didn’t when I worked at a Bank holding company. Why would they? Just more records to keep, for no benefit. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t assuming they did. My post was based on _if_ they did. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/66 "2008-01-10T21:58:39Z")
I contacted my bank and here is the reply I got: > [@](#): > > Enright3, > Thank you for contacting Bank of North Georgia, I have received your inquiry. To answer the question about the counterfeit currency, a teller who discovers someone depositing counterfeit money should immediately alert the customer. They can either hand it back to the customer or retrieve it so that the money would not be circulated to someone else, However if it is within a deposit and discovered the money would be then debited from the total of the deposit. If you need additional information, please feel free to contact us @ 770-576-4471 customer care center. Keep in mind the answer given should be followed but can vary from branch to branch and other institutions. > Thank you for choosing Bank of North Georgia > (name deleted by enright3) > Customer Care Center So, like most answers in this world: “It depends”. My original question to them also asked about any Federal, or State laws, but as you see that wasn’t specifically addressed. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/67 "2008-01-10T23:57:23Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Basically, though, it looks good but feels pretty unbelievable. -Joe [/QUOTE] That’s what she said… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/68 "2008-01-11T00:14:21Z")
And here I thought you were just happy to see me. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/69 "2008-01-11T00:28:07Z")
[QUOTE=vison] I have a $20 CDN bill that I know is counterfeit. I’ve had people put it in the counterfeit detectors in shops, etc., and only one of the machines caught it. I haven’t asked my bank to check it, though. [/QUOTE] From the _[Criminal Code](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_XII::bo-ga:l_XII_1//en?page=8&isPrinting=false#codese:450)_ of Canada: > [@](#): > > \*\*Possession, etc., of counterfeit money > > 450.\*\* Every one who, without lawful justification or excuse, the proof of which lies on him, > > (a) buys, receives or offers to buy or receive, > > (b) **has in his custody or possession** , or > > (c) introduces into Canada, > > counterfeit money is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/70 "2008-01-11T00:37:20Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] Go to the 'hood and buy drugs with it. [/QUOTE] Sounds like a good way to get your ass capped! (Do drug dealers carry those anti-counterfeit markers?) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/71 "2008-01-11T00:57:51Z")
[QUOTE=SpoilerVirgin] Actually, the [Secret Service](http://www.secretservice.gov/history.shtml) was created (in 1865) to fight counterfeiting. Later their duties were expanded to include fighting all types of fraud against the government. They didn’t start protecting the president until 1902. They are still responsible for protecting against counterfeiting, along with investigating other types of financial fraud like identity theft. [/QUOTE] Not only that, but since hacking falls under wire fraud, they have a major role in investigating so-called hacking and cybercrime incidents. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/72 "2008-01-11T01:06:06Z")
…and there’s always a small chance that the bill is genuine, but an earlier series. I"ve seen bank personnel who know nothing about older currency. That’s why I asked about the year on the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/73 "2008-01-11T03:34:30Z")
…and there are the dolts that think $2 bills are counterfeit. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/74 "2008-01-11T14:34:40Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Question: what is the date on the bill? [/QUOTE] Series 2004 A. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/75 "2008-01-11T14:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=pmwgreen] Or did she just get confused about who gave her the bad $20? And did she get an extra tip? [/QUOTE] Well, I gave her $23, and when she came back to the door she had $23 in her hand. It’s possible she was that on the ball, but really, I’ve worked at Pizza Hut, and I’m going to guess a great big “no” on that one. > [@verizontal](#): > > There’s no way of knowing if that bill really did come from their ATM or not. There’s no way for them to know that, of course. **I** know it, because my standard routine is Deposit paycheck-\>Go to ATM to get my spending money to the next paycheck. Basically, it means that the only way a $20 ends up in my pocket is if it comes from the bank’s ATM, and there’s only two branches of theirs I use, and it was most certainly the one closest to my house. It came from their ATM. > [@](#): > > I find it a little more likely that the fake originated with the pizza girl than with the ATM. Sounds like a relatively easy way to make some money on the side when you’re an underpaid pizza delivery person. You deliver pizza, customer pays with (real) $20. You go to car, wait, then come back with a fake $20 and tell the customer they gave it to you. Customer exchanges it for another real $20. Pizza person now has an extra twenty in addition to the payment for the pizza. Yes, despite what I wrote above, this is possible. But, the manager did call me from Domino’s and tell me that they had discovered it was a bad bill and brought it back. So, unless there is a two-person scam going on, I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt. > [@silenus](#): > > Or, they could save thousands of dollars and countless man-hours and just do what they did, only retaining the bill and telling the OP he was out of luck. I have a name! I am not a number! Aaaaah! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/76 "2008-01-11T16:07:08Z")
I think I might have tried to pass it - without taking it to the bank. Maybe go to COSTCO or a mall store during a rush hour, get something @ ~$25, put on an innocent face and go for it. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/77 "2008-01-12T06:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] And then do what with all those serial numbers? Compare it to something? What? The Treasury does NOT publish a list of all the valid serial numbers on all the millions of bills in circulation. I doubt they even have such a listing. Besides the massive size of such a list, it would be incredibly useful to counterfeiters – a list of valid numbers to put on your fakes. About the only useful thing the bank could do is record all the serial numbers (creating a huge file), and watch for a duplicate one coming in. And then you know that either this bill is a fake, or the one that came in a few days ago was a fake. Again, not much use. [/QUOTE] Keeping track of the money that comes through your bank has obvious value. I’m surprised it’s not required. It would make tracing counterfeiters in situations like this easier work. Searching a list of millions of integers can be done quickly with binary search. Your first computer could easily handle the task. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/78 "2008-01-12T07:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=alterego] Keeping track of the money that comes through your bank has obvious value. I’m surprised it’s not required. It would make tracing counterfeiters in situations like this easier work. [/QUOTE] If it’s so obvious, specify it. How does it make more money for the bank? They don’t take the loss from a counterfeit bill, the customer does (as the OP said). And tracing counterfeiters is the job of the police, not the bank. How would catching them make more money for the bank? Even if there got to be too many counterfeits in circulation, people might begin to be hesitant to use cash, and would use bank credit/debit cards instead – now that would make money for the bank. [QUOTE=alterego] Searching a list of millions of integers can be done quickly with binary search. [/QUOTE] But serial numbers aren’t integers, they contain letters and would have to be treated as strings. [QUOTE=alterego] Your first computer could easily handle the task. [/QUOTE] No, the first computer I worked on was a Univac 1004; it could **not** have “easily handled” this task. The entire memory was less than 1,000 characters (and 6-bit characters, at that). ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/79 "2008-01-12T11:04:22Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] If it’s so obvious, specify it. How does it make more money for the bank? They don’t take the loss from a counterfeit bill, the customer does (as the OP said). And tracing counterfeiters is the job of the police, not the bank. How would catching them make more money for the bank? Even if there got to be too many counterfeits in circulation, people might begin to be hesitant to use cash, and would use bank credit/debit cards instead – now that would make money for the bank.But serial numbers aren’t integers, they contain letters and would have to be treated as strings.No, the first computer I worked on was a Univac 1004; it could **not** have “easily handled” this task. The entire memory was less than 1,000 characters (and 6-bit characters, at that). [/QUOTE] Congratulations on your ancient computer. There are patents for modified bill scanners that do OCR on the bill and record the serial numbers in a database. Some of the machines are fully integrated into a system designed to be used by a teller. The Department of Homeland Security has also shown an interest in the devices. I don’t see why the idea is such a shock to you. Having the serial numbers of a large number of bills joined with a customer database allows you to track people. That’s valuable, useful information. By the way, binary search works just as well on strings. If we’re nitpicking data types, I’m not really interested. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897/80 "2008-01-12T15:05:29Z")
Geez, am I the only one who’d try passing the phony $20 bill? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-a-counterfeit-20-in-my-pocket/432897.md?page=5)