# So....I have to ask...anyone leaving the country? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 5, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285 "2008-11-05T16:19:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/61 "2008-11-07T18:07:56Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > Conservatives are so concerned about the concept of someone undeserving possibly getting some of their money, I honestly believe that, given the choice, many would actually prefer to make 250k taxed at 30% over making 400k taxed at 39%. Because they just can’t stand the idea that some people might take advantage of the system and get away with free money. I simply can not fathom why you think this is bad. Some of us try to live honorably and it bothers us that others don’t and we think they should to. Apathy just bewilders me. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/62 "2008-11-07T18:22:02Z")
Can they move to Vatican City? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/63 "2008-11-07T18:30:34Z")
_Too_, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/64 "2008-11-07T18:31:07Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > I simply can not fathom why you think this is bad. Some of us try to live honorably and it bothers us that others don’t and we think they should to. Apathy just bewilders me. Because in a system as large as the American government, we can do one of two things: 1. create regulations on our social safety systems that are so restrictive that they end up weeding out people who truly need help, in order to make 100% certain that no “dishonorable” people are helped. OR 1. create regulations that are flexible enough to ensure that all truly needy people are helped, with the understanding that sometimes we’ll be helping some of those “dishonorable” people as well as the truly need. Personally, I’ll take the risk that someone who doesn’t need government assistance gets it as long as that risk is balanced by a reality in which all truly needy people are helped. For me, it’s not apathy that undeserving people sometimes scam the system. Poor people sometimes scam the entitlement and safety net system - rich people sometimes scam the corporate system. When we catch those people, we should take action, but we shouldn’t attempt to create a system in which scams never occur, because it makes the system itself unresponsive to need. YMM, of course, V. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/65 "2008-11-07T18:31:57Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I’m just spitballin’ here, understand, but I’d say that “failure of perception” is a lot more likely than mass hypnosis. Occam’s Razor, and all that. No, that’s not what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/66 "2008-11-07T18:41:23Z")
**Bootis** suggests that some people just can’t stand the idea that others might take advantage of the system and get away with free money. Everyone should not be able to stand that concept. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/67 "2008-11-07T18:49:55Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > For me, it’s not apathy that undeserving people sometimes scam the system. Poor people sometimes scam the entitlement and safety net system - rich people sometimes scam the corporate system. When we catch those people, we should take action, but we shouldn’t attempt to create a system in which scams never occur, because it makes the system itself unresponsive to need. > > YMM, of course, V. That’s a good point. Despicable a poor person should scam a couple hundred bucks out of the system, but somehow understandable an MBA should scam $100,000 out of the system. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/68 "2008-11-07T19:12:25Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > **Bootis** suggests that some people just can’t stand the idea that others might take advantage of the system and get away with free money. Everyone should not be able to stand that concept. Nobody _likes_ the fact that there might be some scammers, but as **Levdrakon** and **Kolga** say, I can live with a handful of poor people scamming the system if it means that people who need help aren’t being denied. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/69 "2008-11-07T20:10:04Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Nobody _likes_ the fact that there might be some scammers, but as **Levdrakon** and **Kolga** say, I can live with a handful of poor people scamming the system if it means that people who need help aren’t being denied. This. As I see it, there’s some bad in almost everything and while you work to change that, it’s still imperative to understand that there’s plenty of other _deserving_ people that need the help. And it’s those folks that shouldn’t be denied to just to make certain a few bad apples get their comeuppance. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/70 "2008-11-07T22:58:24Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > This. As I see it, there’s some bad in almost everything and while you work to change that, it’s still imperative to understand that there’s plenty of other _deserving_ people that need the help. And it’s those folks that shouldn’t be denied to just to make certain a few bad apples get their comeuppance. Is there a phrase that we can come up with that parallels Mencken’s definition of puritanism (“The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy”)? “The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might possibly end up with small amounts of money that they didn’t work to earn” would be defined as…? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/71 "2008-11-08T00:43:15Z")
Morality? Actually no haunting fear here. Ya know there is an entire society of people who are concerned that others do what they’re supposed to and refrain from doing what they shouldn’t. It’s called Law Enforcement. And then there are a few of us civilians who feel the same. My point is that someone in a lower income bracket shouldn’t receive funds funneled to them from those with higher income. Sharing the wealth. “Deserving” is the catch word. How could anyone be “deserving” in this case. ---
**Author:** ![frankzafka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@frankzafka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frankzafka)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/72 "2008-11-08T00:52:53Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That’s a good point. Despicable a poor person should scam a couple hundred bucks out of the system, but somehow understandable an MBA should scam $100,000 out of the system. Why does being a poor scammer get a pass? What is wrong with having an MBA? This romanticizing of the poor is beyond me. Aim for the stars, be a poor wretch. You can have it–after all the world DOES need ditch diggers. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/73 "2008-11-08T01:05:45Z")
> [@frankzafka](#): > > Why does being a poor scammer get a pass? What is wrong with having an MBA? > This romanticizing of the poor is beyond me. Aim for the stars, be a poor wretch. You can have it–after all the world DOES need ditch diggers. You and my wife would get along great. She, also, completely ignores the point of a statement, fixates on something irrelevant, and argues against a point of view the speaker doesn’t have and didn’t intend to communicate. Because most people have no idea how to respond to such idiocy and just walk away, she “wins” every debate. I bet you do too. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/74 "2008-11-08T01:06:05Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > My point is that someone in a lower income bracket shouldn’t receive funds funneled to them from those with higher income. Sharing the wealth. “Deserving” is the catch word. How could anyone be “deserving” in this case. Well, in my own case, when I’m working I’m making a whopping $2.13 an hour and since that’s so far from having a “higher income,” I suppose I should be one of those people who are concerned with whether or not someone deserves any spreading of our collective wealth. But I’m not and I felt that way long before I’m in the position I am now (decades into a severe mental illness), when I held a much better paying job. Ya see, I don’t take anything from the government because of what I have, but I certainly _could_. I mean, that’s what I’ve paid into that sort thing for all these years. And since I’m not takeing my fair shair, I’m really doubly okay with others who need to. Because if there’s anything I’ve learned from this oh-so-fun journey, is that there are a lot of people who deserve help and I’d rather be one of the ones to freely give it than to police the few who might abuse the privaledge. Obviously, your mileage varies. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285/75 "2008-11-08T01:06:43Z")
> [@frankzafka](#): > > Why does being a poor scammer get a pass? What is wrong with having an MBA? > This romanticizing of the poor is beyond me. Aim for the stars, be a poor wretch. You can have it–after all the world DOES need ditch diggers. No, no. I don’t think anyone deserves a pass for scamming the system. It’s just we grumble, grumble, grumble about the poor scamming the system but then the government has to spend a trillion dollars on corporate welfare and we’re all “that’s business!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-have-to-ask-anyone-leaving-the-country/471285.md?page=3)