# so I kind of crossed a line today at work (long) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579 "2011-03-22T05:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/21 "2011-03-22T10:25:42Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCHFheoYyow](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCHFheoYyow) A song for you, madmonk. Perhaps it will make you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/22 "2011-03-22T10:32:57Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > What can I say? **We’re foreign aid workers ain a conflict zone and we’re supposed to give a shit.** If I have people working for me who aren’t busting their ass trying to dump work on people who are maxed out on effort, I’m going to call them on it. I might not punish someone who does the bare minimum, but I’m sure as shit going to stick up for the people going above and beyond. I’m also going to remember who really worked hard when it comes time to do evaluations. I don’t think that is passive aggressive, I think it is doing my job. This. And FWIW, I thought the ‘Yer Mom’ comment was frickin hilarious too. 😃 Keep up the good work **madmonk**. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/23 "2011-03-22T13:20:53Z")
As long as your teams are 100% male, it’s probably not a big deal. You made points with everyone in the room except for the loudmouth. I would like to know how you determined your post deserved the “long” tag? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/24 "2011-03-22T13:27:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I would like to know how you determined your post deserved the “long” tag? Ask [Paul McCartney](http://tinyurl.com/464x8nv). ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/25 "2011-03-22T13:40:01Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Perhaps paying them for all the hours your asking them to work would motivate them? Simplicio, these are foreign aid workers in Afghanistan. madmonk28 didn’t say, but I suspect that these are contractors who are probably on a contract to USAD, and are probably paid a fairly generous sum of money. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/26 "2011-03-22T13:45:02Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > The older guys aren’t busting their ass because they aren’t trying to impress anyone the way the younger kids are. You should take a lesson from them. Eventually you’re gonna realize that nobody was really keeping score after all. This is hilarious. Have you ever actually had a job? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/27 "2011-03-22T13:55:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps next time it would be better to say, "It doesn’t matter what Steve’s doing, I’m giving the job to you. How is that funny? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/28 "2011-03-22T14:10:49Z")
It’s not supposed to be funny, it’s supposed to be effective. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/29 "2011-03-22T14:21:38Z")
**madmonk** , you seem to know it wasn’t the smartest or calmest thing to say, but if anyone has a problem with it, they should go fuck themselves. If someone wanted to be a clockwatcher, they shouldn’t have volunteered to go work in a war zone. Don’t give the bastards a single inch. You said it, what’s done is done, and if the lazy SOBs on Team A are more concerned about being on the Real Housewives of Kabul and getting their panties all bunched up over who said what to whom, rather than helping people in real need of help, then I have some even more choice words for them. Don’t back down, just move on. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/30 "2011-03-22T14:37:30Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I might not punish someone who does the bare minimum, but I’m sure as shit going to stick up for the people going above and beyond. I’m also going to remember who really worked hard when it comes time to do evaluations. _makes a note to never accept a job with **madmonk28** _ Thankfully we’re in different fields, but mine also favors people who work long hours (which is not the same as “working really hard”), and also favors people who work really hard over those who get the same or better results with less work. Apparently if you’re experienced, skilled or smart enough to get the job done without running yourself bald, it wasn’t worth the money you’re being paid. I’ve been known to do in 3 hours the work it would have taken someone else about 60 (I delivered it after 16 in order to avoid making him look so bad). Team A’s boss has a bad 'tude (those “what’s Steve doing?” comments really should get shoved up his ass), but the problem with them is them not wanting to do the work assigned to them: if they do the work assigned to them in the time alloted for it, hallellujah! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/31 "2011-03-22T15:10:10Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > _makes a note to never accept a job with **madmonk28** _ Thankfully we’re in different fields, but mine also favors people who work long hours (which is not the same as “working really hard”), and also favors people who work really hard over those who get the same or better results with less work. Apparently if you’re experienced, skilled or smart enough to get the job done without running yourself bald, it wasn’t worth the money you’re being paid. I’ve been known to do in 3 hours the work it would have taken someone else about 60 (I delivered it after 16 in order to avoid making him look so bad). > > Team A’s boss has a bad 'tude (those “what’s Steve doing?” comments really should get shoved up his ass), but the problem with them is them not wanting to do the work assigned to them: if they do the work assigned to them in the time alloted for it, hallellujah! They are in a goddamn war zone and dealing with issues to relieve human suffering. This isn’t about making sure some software project gets done on time, or producing auditable financial statements in time for the next quarterly review. The work they complete – or don’t complete because their shift is up – directly relates to the quality of life of people who are displaced, poor, disabled, or who otherwise had their lives turned upside down because of war. If they are so good that they get their work done on time, they should be doing more work to help more people to the maximum extent that their budget allows. If aid workers would prefer to punch the clock like a normal job, and not bust their ass at every opportunity, they shouldn’t have volunteered to go to a war zone. I would guess that these guys are probably in Afghanistan for about a year or so – am I right, **madmonk**? If that is in the ballpark they ought to be busting their asses for that whole time, not counting how many minutes they have to make another run to Burger King during their lunch hour. I expect no less of the civilians who are serving overseas than what is asked of the members of the armed forces who are on call throughout their deployment. Again, if this kind of job isn’t for you, nobody is going to tell you that you have to go to Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/32 "2011-03-22T15:19:27Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I absolutely could give a fuck about keeping score. This isn’t some job in an office park along the parkway, where you pop down to Subway for lunch and then maybe off to Starbucks. We are motherfucking aid workers trying to provide assistance to wartorn communities, if that can’t get a person out of the bed in the morning and get them motivated to break a fucking sweat then fuck them. Ah, my mistake. I didn’t realize you were such an Important Person. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/33 "2011-03-22T15:19:51Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > This is hilarious. Have you ever actually had a job? That made me chuckle as well. Being an old dude and all. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/34 "2011-03-22T15:23:04Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Ah, my mistake. I didn’t realize you were such an Important Person. :rolleyes: Haters gonna hate. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/35 "2011-03-22T15:30:32Z")
By that logic, I’m not sure why anyone would pay aid workers at all. After all, if they should be willing to put in three extra hours a day for free, why not just tell them they’re greedy bastards for getting paid at all. And why even have an agreement that says they have an hour for lunch and will be paid for eight hours of work a day if anyone who actually does that is declared a poor employee. It seems perverse to actively mislead an employee about the expectations regarding their job. If you need them for eleven hours on a regular basis, tell them that before they move to a war-torn hellhole. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/36 "2011-03-22T15:31:54Z")
First, madmonk28, you’re not going to get into trouble for this comment. 1) The people you said it to don’t sound like the types that would REALLY get offended by this or could be arsed to kick it up the line to make a big case over it. 2) You’re in a goddamn fuckin’ war zone! I’m pretty sure everyone has bigger things to worry about then a stupid “your mom” joke. On the other part, here’s a suggestion on what to say to Team A: “Now, it’s up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Well, like Team B, for example, has 37 pieces of flair. And a terrific smile. People can get a foreign aid anywhere, ok? They come to MadMonskie’s for the atmosphere and the attitude. That’s what the flair’s about. It’s about fun. Look, we want you to express yourself, ok? If you think the bare minimum is enough, then ok. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don’t you?” ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/37 "2011-03-22T15:33:40Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > This is hilarious. Have you ever actually had a job? I’m at work now actually. Please, elaborate so that we may share in the hilarity. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/38 "2011-03-22T15:47:07Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > By that logic, I’m not sure why anyone would pay aid workers at all. After all, if they should be willing to put in three extra hours a day for free, why not just tell them they’re greedy bastards for getting paid at all. > > And why even have an agreement that says they have an hour for lunch and will be paid for eight hours of work a day if anyone who actually does that is declared a poor employee. It seems perverse to actively mislead an employee about the expectations regarding their job. If you need them for eleven hours on a regular basis, tell them that before they move to a war-torn hellhole. Probably because a lot of jobs aren’t 8 hour day, 40 hour week style jobs. If you are a professional employee or management, you are exempt from the overtime rules. Just out of curiosity, how much do you think these folk make? Quite a few of the contractors I’ve met who are going to Afghanistan make six figure salaries. While they are there, they aren’t paying for housing so they tend to save a large chunk of that salary. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/39 "2011-03-22T16:13:37Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > Probably because a lot of jobs aren’t 8 hour day, 40 hour week style jobs. If you are a professional employee or management, you are exempt from the overtime rules. Not necessarily. I’m both a professional employee and management, make a 6 figure salary, and get overtime. It all depends on the terms of your contract. That said, I work in the legal field, and I’m my work’s bitch. When the courts give a deadline, you meet it. Lunch? Hah! Can’t remember the last time I actually took my lunch hour. You’ll work without sleep if the deadline demands it. Literally. I’ve worked a 29 hour day. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579/40 "2011-03-22T17:02:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > They are in a goddamn war zone and dealing with issues to relieve human suffering. This isn’t about making sure some software project gets done on time, or producing auditable financial statements in time for the next quarterly review If I do my current job wrong, one of the consequences could be an industrial explosion 200yd away from one of the three biggest hospital complexes in Spain, in the middle of one of our four biggest cities. I take that seriously, for some reason, and would even if I didn’t happen to have relatives living within the immediate danger zone. Thing is: if Team B is truly going “above and beyond”, nice for them so long as they don’t burn themselves out in that “above and beyond” to the point where they miss their main objective - and if the reason they’re working long hours is because they can’t meet their objectives within the alloted time, they are _not_ going “above and beyond”, they’re going below. I’ve been in teams where one of the first things we were told was “there will be times we have to put in extra hours and push extra and pull harder - and times when we won’t. Use the low-load times to recover from the other ones, we don’t want you to burn out.” Those teams performed way beyond the wildest expectations of anybody who didn’t work there. I’ve been in teams where one of the first things we were told was “you know what this job is like, there will be times when we’ll have to put in extra hours.” Not only was there no talk (much less possibility) of compensation time, but those times were expected to be every day during the project. And you know what? The more emphasis there was on praising those who worked hard or long over those who got their objectives met, the more those projects were likely to end up serving as a Bad Example. Long hours \<\> good work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-kind-of-crossed-a-line-today-at-work-long/575579.md?page=3)