# So, I Read Twilight **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774 "2009-04-11T21:20:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/21 "2009-04-11T23:38:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Quasi** -trust us, it’s BAD. It really, really sucks. The guy is a total stalker, but it’s just because “he loves her sooooo much-Edward is soooooo hot!!!” I **know** _Guin_!🙂 That’s why I only read the first book, Honey-Bun!😃 May I also say… (and I _know_ this will get me thrown out of the thread) I absolutely **hated** the Anne Rice novels? Give me Stephen King on Listerine **ANY FARGIN’ DAY!!!** Quasi ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/22 "2009-04-11T23:50:20Z")
:smack: Sorry, **Quasi** , I should read better. Hmmmm…Rice’s vampires vs. Meyers’s vampires-that would be an interesting fight! I liked the Mayfair series, though. The rest of her books…not so much. (I DID like _Interview_, but that was it. Rice is nuttier than a Payday candybar.) Personally, if my kid wanted to read a vampire YA book, I would reccomend Christopher Pike’s _Last Vampire_ series. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/23 "2009-04-11T23:51:44Z")
I LOATHE Anne Rice and LeStat. I read 2 of those books-the second one I did not finish; I threw it across the room. Ugh. I’m not real into vampires, but I do like some paranormal/ghost type books. Not a huge fan of gothic fic, but I like Carole Goodman and Mary Stewart. Hey, it’s escapist stuff, not Literature. Not real into Stephen King, either, but his books are (or were) tautly plotted with well rounded characters. **Guin** –to me, stalking means someone watching/waiting etc whom you have no interest in or don’t know about or were involved with, but want nothing more to do with. Bella’s so damned co-dependent that she keeps begging him to stay etc. I see her as pleading with him to stay and keep her safe from the boogeyman aka I see Edward as my daddy meme. It’s icky. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/24 "2009-04-12T00:10:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Quasi** -trust us, it’s BAD. It really, really sucks. If anything, you’re being far too kind. The books are downright _abysmal_, and by the end of the series it’s not only bad, it’s weird as fuck and the series ends (spoiler but not really) on an ENORMOUS anti-climax. With a totally nonsensical and pointless Deux Ex Machina to boot. I wouldn’t say that they’re harmful, necessarily, but Edward and Bella’s relationship is incredibly unhealthy and scary (and not in a way that has anything to do with him being a vampire). As mentioned, Edward _watches Bella sleep, in her room, before they date or are even friends_. Not only does Bella have no agency whatsoever in her own life (stuff just happens around her), Edward physically prevents her from doing things she wants to do in later books. Bella’s life is more or less entirely controlled by the men around her and she spends 80% of the entire series talking about how much she sucks and how great Edward is in contrast. It’s strangely compelling despite all this, but yeesh. Reading the books got really painful at times, and Meyers cannot write for shit. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/25 "2009-04-12T00:13:49Z")
As I was telling on of the kids at work who’s on (IIRC) the second book: If you’re not female, it’s very difficult to understand exactly why the books are so offensive. We’ve spent decades trying to convince girls that they’re capable of being strong, of standing on their own, of not needing to be ‘owned’ by a man, of having control over their sexuality, etc., and these books are on the path to undoing all that work in one fell swoop. Never mind the fact that the later books cater to EVERY SINGLE fear that young girls have about sex and childbirth. Amusingly, the kid (a boy) complained to me later that Bella spent _way_ too much time obsessing over how hot Edward was, and how it didn’t make sense for her to be so in love with someone she didn’t even know. 😃 One of my coworkers, an avid reader of everything she can get her hands on, not only had to force herself through the books, but also struggled to keep from throwing them in the fire. I have never seen her have such a visceral response to anything, and I _know_ she’s read some true shit. She thought it was important to read them because some of our kids are into it, but I pity anyone who attempts to engage her in a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/26 "2009-04-12T00:26:27Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > Not only does Bella have no agency whatsoever in her own life (stuff just happens around her), Edward physically prevents her from doing things she wants to do in later books. Bella’s life is more or less entirely controlled by the men around her and she spends 80% of the entire series talking about how much she sucks and how great Edward is in contrast. > > It’s strangely compelling despite all this, but yeesh. Reading the books got really painful at times, and Meyers cannot write for shit. I agree. I don’t know why I am not creeped out by Edward watching Bella sleep–maybe because I can’t get over Edward essentially being a father figure to Bella and lots of dads (and moms) watch over their babies as they sleep… To each his own–there’s plenty of relationship dysfunctionality to be creeped out by. I see Bella as a whiny loser. I see Edward as a blank with Bella’s needs and fantasies projected onto his “marble form”. Have any of you read A Mango Shaped Space by Wendy Mass? [link](http://www.amazon.com/Mango-Shaped-Space-Wendy-Mass/dp/0316523887) That’s a book about a girl who sees herself as loser of sorts, but it’s a book about self discovery. That’s just one example of good teen writing that is also “good” for girls (and boys). The characters are genuine and the plotting active and complete. If you want to read a good teen book, I recommend it. It doesn’t have any vampires, but it does have synthesia! ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/27 "2009-04-12T00:36:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Personally, if my kid wanted to read a vampire YA book, I would reccomend Christopher Pike’s _Last Vampire_ series. **Guin?** Wasn’t Christopher Pike the first Captain of the Enterprise, Hon? Also, I know that R.L. Stine writes some very nice scary books for our little ones! I sure do appreciate y’all keeping my mind moving. Thanks Bill ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/28 "2009-04-12T01:06:49Z")
I agree with so much of what’s been said here about the books - I basically threw them across the room after I read them and only picked them up because I had to return them to the library. BTW, the movie was horrid too - I got it from Netflix and that was 2 hours I’ll never get back. But, [here](http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/pdf/midnightsun_partial_draft4.pdf) (PDF warning) is a draft that was leaked (and then Meyer posted) of a retelling from Edwards point of view. I keep forgetting about it so haven’t finished it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/29 "2009-04-12T02:07:16Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > **Guin?** > > Wasn’t Christopher Pike the first Captain of the Enterprise, Hon? I have no idea, as I loathe _Star Trek_. I’m a _Star Wars_ gal. May the Force be with you, **Quasi**. 😉 **Lsura** -_Midnight Sun_ seems even worse. _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/30 "2009-04-12T02:34:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > May the Force be with you, **Quasi**. And also with **you**! _crosses himself and changes diaper_ 😃 Q ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/31 "2009-04-12T03:05:34Z")
Doesn’t it strike any of the fangirls who read this bilge as just a little but creepy that a teenage girl is being stalked by a man who is over 100 years old? How romantic would it be if one of their friends’ dads climbed through their bedroom window to perv on them while they were sleeping? And why is a 100 year old vampire still in high school? Is he that stupid that he keeps getting held back year after year for a century? When did he enroll? Did he give his true age when he enrolled? Why didn’t he just get his GED? What old man actually goes back to sit through high school? What is he going to do with with his high school diploma? Get a job? Why? Go to college? For what purpose? I haven’t even read these things, but I can still smell the stupid a mile away. They also sound aggressively offensive and vile in a number of other ways. I’m pretty libertarian with what I let my kids read and watch (my 9 year old loves _South Park_ and _Family Guy_, and reads way above her age level), but I think I might be wary of letting her read these things. They sound like literary lobotomies. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/32 "2009-04-12T03:30:13Z")
It may have been the stupidest book I ever read. And I didn’t read it all the way through because it was extremely boring, what with all the sniffing and longing glances and overwrought descriptions of Edward’s beauty. My 18 year old liked it, and I got her to tell me about the rest of the series to wrap up the unanswered questions I did have. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/33 "2009-04-12T03:38:44Z")
The only problem with girls reading these books is that they might think, as many do, that the Edward/Bella relationship is somehow idyllic or romantic. He’s a controlling jerk who watches her sleep, tells her who she can and can’t hang out with, and whose life revolves around her in a very patronizing, “oh she’s such a delicate little kitten, so cute, so fragile!” way. Bella has literally nothing in her life when she meets Edward. She moved from Arizona leaving behind no friends, has no hobbies, no interests, etc. They are both empty vessels who become filled with this ridiculous obsession with each other. Both contemplate suicide when separated. This is not romantic-- it’s codependent. Nothing to be dreaming about or hoping for. It plays upon young girls’ wishes to be the center of attention of the handsomest boy in school, but it takes it too far. Ultimately, Bella gives up everything she is: her identity, her selfhood, and her life, to die and be made into the perfect wife and mother with Edward and their creepy child. It’s sick. I think it’s hilarious that the Twilight Moms are such fans of this book, and want their daughters to read it, because Edward and Bella abstain from sex until married. First of all, not for Bella’s lack of trying, and second, Edward was terrified that he’d accidentally EAT Bella if they had sex (and not in a metaphorical sense). When they do finally do it, he causes her physical harm. Wow, that’s a great message to send to girls. This is not even taking into account what the pregnancy does to her. Diogenes, Edward is in high school as a cover story so his family doesn’t look weird around town. How long they were going to drag out that cover story, I don’t know. It couldn’t hold up more than a year or two. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/34 "2009-04-12T04:10:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And why is a 100 year old vampire still in high school? Is he that stupid that he keeps getting held back year after year for a century? When did he enroll? Did he give his true age when he enrolled? Why didn’t he just get his GED? What old man actually goes back to sit through high school? What is he going to do with with his high school diploma? Get a job? Why? Go to college? For what purpose? [spoiler]The Cullen family constantly relocates between Forks and some town in Alaska and always enroll the younger-looking vamps in high school because it allows them to live relatively normal lives for a while. They also sometimes attend college, and Carlisle became a doctor after getting vamped. They do it for the interaction. It is revealed in the fourth book that the Cullens have contacts who forge birth certificates, passports, etc. for them periodically. The family is extremely wealthy. You’re right that it’s really stupid, but the mechanics of the Cullens’ life sort of makes sense.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/35 "2009-04-12T04:14:51Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > When they do finally do it, he causes her physical harm. Wow, that’s a great message to send to girls. This is not even taking into account what the pregnancy does to her. [spoiler]The scene following the first time Edward and Bella have sex is _super_ creepy, isn’t it? Bella awakes covered in bruises but didn’t even notice getting them because she was lost in ecstasy and Edward just couldn’t control himself. Bleeeeccch! And of course the whole pregnancy is fucked up ten ways to Sunday, culminating with Jacob imprinting on Bella’s infant daughter. Ick! While we’re at it, the concept of “imprinting” on the part of the werewolves is at least as creepy as anything else in the series.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/36 "2009-04-12T04:54:13Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > If you want vaguely creepy but fantastical, I suggest A.S. Byatt’s short stories–her Little Black Book. I’m going to move this from the bookshelf to the reading pile. I bought it, started a few, never got into it. I will give it another try, though, reading your post. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/37 "2009-04-12T05:18:53Z")
> [@shy\_guy](#): > > The scene following the first time Edward and Bella have sex is _super_ creepy, isn’t it? Bella awakes covered in bruises but didn’t even notice getting them because she was lost in ecstasy and Edward just couldn’t control himself. Bleeeeccch! And of course, the morning after Bella awakens to find herself covered in feathers because Edward BIT a pillow when he came. (Are feather pillows even that common anymore? My mother is the only one I know of who uses them) **Diogenes** -but Edward is sooooooo hot!!! :rolleyes: Although I think once you hit about 100-some years old, and you’re still basically seventeen, I don’t think that counts as being an old man. (If only because of the other vampire and/or supernatural stories I’ve read. _Twilight_ is hardly original in that respect.) The controlling thing, however? Ew ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/38 "2009-04-12T05:25:55Z")
I haven’t read the series, but what annoys me are the girls who wear those stupid t-shirts that say, “I’m waiting for my Edward.” My just want to grab them and say, “Look, he’s the perfect guy, right? In every way possible, then why the fuck would he want anything to do with you? You aren’t that great” ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/39 "2009-04-12T05:54:08Z")
[One guy’s take on the movie, as “reprinted” in Cracked.com.](http://www.cracked.com/article_16878_if-twilight-was-10-time-shorter-100-times-more-honest.html) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774/40 "2009-04-12T13:02:21Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > **Guin?** > > Wasn’t Christopher Pike the first Captain of the Enterprise, Hon? [Nope.](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Christopher_Pike) The second. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-read-twilight/492774.md?page=3)