# So if not the Vikings, then who did wear helmets with horns? Anyone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 6, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917 "2004-10-06T20:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/1 "2004-10-06T20:49:22Z")
If you read about the Vikings, the first thing they tell you is that they were marauding seafarers from Scandinavia, active from about 700-1000CE. The second thing they tell you is usually that they didn’t wear helmets with horns, Hagar The Horrible notwithstanding. So, how did this notion originate? And did any people in ancient or mideival times wear helmets with horns? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/2 "2004-10-06T21:23:54Z")
[Samurai armour](http://www.japanese-armor.com/japanese-helmets.shtml) often featured helmets with horn like structures on top. These were of relatively flimsy construction so couldn’t be used for leaver against the wearers head, they were mostly for decoration and intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/3 "2004-10-06T21:51:20Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > So if not the Vikings, then who did wear helmets with horns? Large female opera singers and Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd when trying to look like large female opera singers. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/4 "2004-10-06T22:32:37Z")
Horned helmets and depictions of same exist as bronze age artifacts (many centuries prior to the Vikings). They probably wouldn’t have actually worn them in battle, for obvious reasons, but for ceremonial purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/5 "2004-10-06T23:18:37Z")
So, did Bronze Age Scandanavians wear horned helmets? And how did horned helms become associated with Vikings to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/6 "2004-10-06T23:23:10Z")
So what was up with the _Pickelhaube_? Was the spike on top meant to be used as a weapon, in case the hand-to-hand turned to head-butting? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/7 "2004-10-06T23:40:38Z")
> [@Jomo Mojo](#): > > So what was up with the _Pickelhaube_? Was the spike on top meant to be used as a weapon, in case the hand-to-hand turned to head-butting? [Because they looked cool?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=148514&highlight=picklehaube) ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/8 "2004-10-07T00:29:58Z")
As noted in that link, one man, King Friedrich-Wilhelm IV of Prussia, came up with the Pickelhaube: [http://www.pitofdespair.com/Pickelhaube/pick.htm](http://www.pitofdespair.com/Pickelhaube/pick.htm) > [@](#): > > Indeed private purchase “vanity” spikes were very popular and officers competed with each other for the tallest and fiercest conceiveable. The situation grew out of control and eventually the war office limited the height of the pickelhaube spike once and for all. The spike was strictly ornamental. Friedrich-Wilhelm seems to have simply wanted something to make his troops look distinctive after he modernized the Prussian army. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/9 "2004-10-07T00:39:42Z")
Oh, and googling about with “bronze age horned helmet” will turn up a lot of stuff, including assertions that they were worn by earlier Scandinavians, among others. There is also this concerning how the association came about: > [@](#): > > There is no evidence whatsoever that the vikings on any occasion wore helmets with horns. This is a latter-day myth created by national romantic ideas in Sweden at the end of the 19th century, notably the Geatish Society, and further imprinted by cartoons like Hagar the Horrible or Asterix and numerous fictitious movies. The people living in Scandinavia during the Bronze Age did, however, wear horned helmets during ceremonies, as testified by rock carvings and actual finds. See Bohuslän. From [http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Viking](http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Viking) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-not-the-vikings-then-who-did-wear-helmets-with-horns-anyone/267917/10 "2004-10-07T02:03:28Z")
I’ve finished writing a Straight Dope Staff Report on this topic. I can’t say when it will come out, perhaps not for a month or two. The short version is that Germanic peoples did wear some sort of horned ceremonial headgear, probably as late as a century or two before the beginning of the Viking Age. A few Bronze Age horned helmets have been found in Denmark, but most of the evidence comes from artistic images (rock carvings, engraved metal objects, etc.). The writings of some Greek and Roman authors seems to confirm the fact. The horned man in the Oseburg tapestry unearthed in Norway is a bit of an outlier, coming centuries later than other evidence. It could be a survival of a dying custom or a reintroduction from other areas. Starting in the Middle Ages, horned helmets were put on the heads of pre-Viking Germans in European artwork and stage costuming, sometimes unrealistically in battle scenes. A few times starting in the the 1820s horned helmets were put on the heads of Vikings, but the trend didn’t catch on until later. It was probably from stage plays about pre-Viking Germans that Wagner and his costume designers got the idea of putting horned helmets on the heads of some of the characters in his _Ring_ cycle. His operas were not about the Vikings but rather about Germans of the mythological past, but not everyone who attended the performances made the distinction. Horned helmets really took off in the 1890s when the link to Vikings was made by the illustrators of several German and English children’s books. The fad was slower to take hold in Scandinavia where the equally ahistorical winged helmets were more popular until about the time of the First World War. The ancient Germans were not unique in using horned headgear in ceremonies. There is evidence of ceremonial horned headgear from the Bronze Age in Celtic areas, the Mediterranean basin, Mesopotatmia, the Indus Valley, and probably other parts of the world where cattle were important.