# So If the Government Doesn't Respond, Try Us! (re tsunami) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 27, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785 "2004-12-27T16:54:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/1 "2004-12-27T16:54:40Z")
I’m hearing on NBC that geologists on the U.S. west coast knew about the Indian Ocean earthquake and its likely result. Apparently they tried to call the gov’t of Indonesia but nobody was home. More likely they just don’t want to talk to us. Whatever. Why the fuck didn’t our scientists try other means of communicating, and do so directly with the populace? Such as, oh, the Internet? Cable news? Cell phones? Geez. If people in the U.S. and Europe had known about this, they could’ve contacted their friends & relatives & co-workers, to spread the word. Right? Or am I completely wrong? Not that it would’ve prevented all deaths - but to the hundreds of people I think we could have saved it would’ve made a difference. Isn’t it time for us to start acting like a world community? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/2 "2004-12-27T17:01:16Z")
Well, you may be over-estimating connectivity. These are places where most people don’t have radios or telephones, let alone computers and internet connections. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/3 "2004-12-27T17:16:59Z")
Where on the Internet should they have posted such information? The Straight Dope Message Board? What cell phone number should they have dialed? What’s that area code of Indonesia again? Do you really think the geologists in Indonesia were unaware of the earthquake and needed to be notified by someone based thousands of miles away? If these countries don’t have some kind of emergency response strategy already in place, it’s too late to get one set up a couple of minutes before a tsunami hits. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/4 "2004-12-27T17:20:32Z")
yeahbut If the CNN ticker had said something like - “Hey, if you know anyone in this part of the world, give 'em a call.” Or, geez, [Yahoo.com](http://Yahoo.com) - aren’t there a lot of people on that one? And weren’t there a lot of tourists in the area? Might they not have been reachable? Couldn’t people at least have tried to call their relatives to let them know? Posting it on SDMB might have saved at least a few lives. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/5 "2004-12-27T17:24:49Z")
yeahbut If the CNN ticker had said something like - “Hey, if you know anyone in this part of the world, give 'em a call.” Or, geez, [Yahoo.com](http://Yahoo.com) - aren’t there a lot of people on that one? And weren’t there a lot of tourists in the area? Might they not have been reachable? Couldn’t people at least have tried to call their relatives to let them know? Shoot, posting it on SDMB might have saved at least a few lives. I’m really ignorant about this, but it just seems like if pictures and video can be gotten OUT of the area, then some kind of warning could’ve been gotten IN. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/6 "2004-12-27T17:31:25Z")
Maybe they _were_ warned: > [@](#): > > East Timor’s national security chief David Ximenes said meteorologists had warned of a major seismic event in the next two days and warned citizens to stay away from shorelines and major rivers where tidal waves were a risk. > > Indonesia, a sprawling archipelago of more than 17,000 islands, lies at the collision point of three tectonic plates. Pressure between the massive segments of the Earth’s crust cause frequent earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. [http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/12/content\_391107.htm](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/12/content_391107.htm) Sometimes, people just don’t give a shit for warnings. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/7 "2004-12-27T17:33:24Z")
Yeah but probably it would be pretty presumptuous for outsiders to promote a massive evacuation/panic in a bunch of foreign countries. If the thing was a false alarm, that’d be a real shit storm for those people. Granted it might be better in theory to risk your career to possibly save hundreds or thousands of lives, but that’s a lot easier to say after the fact. Really it sounds like its those governments’ faults if they ignored our warning. In any case, I don’t think there’s much that they really could have done. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/8 "2004-12-27T17:47:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe they _were_ warned: > > [Earthquakes hit Indonesia, 17 dead](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/12/content_391107.htm) > > Sometimes, people just don’t give a shit for warnings. Thanks for the info - are you sure this is the same event? Looks more like an event that occurred on November 12 (or December 11). I didn’t think any of the victims had died as a direct result of the earthquake, as described in that story. Or are you just saying that nobody over there ever listens? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/9 "2004-12-27T18:05:30Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe they _were_ warned: > > [http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/12/content\_391107.htm](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/12/content_391107.htm) > > Sometimes, people just don’t give a shit for warnings. Wrong earthquake. East Timor is at the far eastern end of the Indonesian archipelago, just north and west of Darwin, Australia. This week’s earthquake was off the western coast of Sumatra, a couple of thousand miles away. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/10 "2004-12-27T18:23:05Z")
Lacking a cite at the moment, but IIRC the USGS noted the earthquake event, and attempted to contact the nations most likely to suffer the effects of a tsunami, but lacked contact information. Dunno how easy it is for a geologist/scientist to pick up a phone and ring the ambassador from east Hohokus and warn him of a disaster about to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/11 "2004-12-27T18:52:08Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > Thanks for the info - are you sure this is the same event? Looks more like an event that occurred on November 12 (or December 11). I didn’t think any of the victims had died as a direct result of the earthquake, as described in that story. Or are you just saying that nobody over there ever listens? I stand corrected. Apologies for the error. Nevertheless, even from that cite, it doesn’t seem to be the case that Indonesian authorities routinely fail to warn their populace. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/12 "2004-12-27T18:58:12Z")
Ah, yes. Thousands dead in South Asia. Fault determined to lie with the United States. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/13 "2004-12-27T19:14:52Z")
> [@Qwertyasdfg](#): > > Yeah but probably it would be pretty presumptuous for outsiders to promote a massive evacuation/panic in a bunch of foreign countries. If the thing was a false alarm, that’d be a real shit storm for those people. Granted it might be better in theory to risk your career to possibly save hundreds or thousands of lives, but that’s a lot easier to say after the fact. > > Really it sounds like its those governments’ faults if they ignored our warning. > > In any case, I don’t think there’s much that they really could have done. Bingo. One must think about the consequences of igniting fear and hysteria in countries other than their own when considering geological information(and really, any type of warning), and how that country should respond. More than presumptuous, it’s dangerous and the consequences can be huge, so scientists do what they can within their rights without overstepping their responsibilities. Sam ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/14 "2004-12-27T19:28:15Z")
An article I just read on the Tribune’s web page explained that scientists wouldn’t have known exactly which direction the tsunami was headed. It’s just frustrating to have so many technological capabilities, and still see these tragedies. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/15 "2004-12-27T19:49:45Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > It’s just frustrating to have so many technological capabilities, and still see these tragedies. Mother earth will always trump technology. Tragedy will always happen. It is the way of things… Sam ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/16 "2004-12-27T22:36:55Z")
Here are some communication facts for India: > [@](#): > > TV sets (per 1,000 people) 83 (2001 est) Radios (per 1,000 people) 121 (1997) Internet users (per 10,000 people) 159.1 (2002 est) Personal computer users (per 100 people) 0.7 (2002 est) Indonesia: > [@](#): > > TV sets (per 1,000 people) 153 (2001 est) Radios (per 1,000 people) 159 (2001 est) Internet users (per 10,000 people) 377.2 (2002 est) Personal computer users (per 100 people) 1.2 (2002 est) Sri Lanka: > [@](#): > > TV sets (per 1,000 people) 117 (2001 est) Radios (per 1,000 people) 215 (2001 est) Internet users (per 10,000 people) 105.6 (2002 est) Personal computer users (per 100 people) 1.3 (2002 est) Versus the US > [@](#): > > TV sets (per 1,000 people) 844 (1999) Radios (per 1,000 people) 2,146 (1997) Internet users (per 10,000 people) 5,375.1 (2002 est) Personal computer users (per 100 people) 65.9 (2002 est) It’s a different world out there. There are times- even entire places- where communication is rare. Private telephones are extremely rare in all but the biggest cities. The Internet is restricted to a few tourist haunts. You can’t hold them to our standards of disaster preparation. Even driving down the road will get you killed (1,500 traffic deaths happen in India every day). People die stupid tragic deaths every day. It’s going to take a while and a lot of money to keep people from dieing of stuff like cholora, much less acts of God. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/17 "2004-12-27T23:53:06Z")
Is there any kind of world-wide marine weather advisory radio service? Short wave? Maybe a BBC service that might get decent listenership in that area. I wonder whether the US Navy flashed out any kind of warning to US flagged vessels (Naval or otherwise)? I don’t think that anyone would have an objection to an announcement of a Tsunami Warning like a hurricane warning. Does Jamaica get pissed if US weather satellites track a hurricane and predict landfall on Jamaice? I don’t think so. Unless we also started issuing directives to Jamaincan citizens as to what to do about it, I don’t think there is a reasonable objection. And frankly, something generic saying, “we suggest those in coastal areas seek higher ground” is something completely reasonable as well. Does the US Weather Service need any other nation’s approval before publishing its weather forecasts? I understand that this is a completely separate question from what US scientists actually knew, and I don’t think this latter question has yet been resolved. [This AP story](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20041227/ap_on_re_as/quake_warning_system) claims the instrumentation necessary for prediction is simply not in place in that part of the world, which suggests that US scientists wouldn’t have been in any better position to issue a specific warning. Apparently seismograph readings alone are not sufficient data for these predictions to have much value. But I would be really interested to know if any US Navy vessels were in any ports in the affected areas, and whether they suffered any damage and/or got sufficient warning to move out to sea in advance. I would thin that as a courtesy to their local naval counterparts that they would pass along such an alarm to the host navy. But maybe I’m a foolish optimist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/18 "2004-12-28T00:03:16Z")
What ticks me off is that there was a warning. Everywhere that was hit When you’re about to be hit by a tidal wave, the first thing that happens is the shoreline suddenly recedes. Thats when you run like hell for refuge. Even I know that because of some television documentary I saw several years ago. Why aren’t people educated about this ? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/19 "2004-12-28T00:10:52Z")
Jim, whenever there is a quake anywhere of a certain size near the ocean, a Tsunami warning is broadcast as a default-whether or not one has been detected yet. After the automated warning systems take over and the scientists have had a chance to process the data, they either extend the warning, or cancel it. I believe there is an automatic signal generated on ship-to-shore, satellite, and on other means of communicating warnings to people of the world that aren’t solely US-centric. Sam ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785/20 "2004-12-28T00:16:59Z")
Grienspace- People of the western world-US, Canada, Western Europe-are lucky tyo have those resources at our fingertips. People in other parts of the world are lucky to have a TV or a radio, let alone a public information station that runs specials on tidal waves, avalanches, killer squids, and the like. Here we almost have 85% of homes with TV, 2 radios per family, and almost 50% of us have computers and internet access-as sven’s info points out. Things are not the same in other more impoverished nations. Sam [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-the-government-doesnt-respond-try-us-re-tsunami/281785.md?page=2)