# So, If We Gave Every Household In The USA A FREE Electric Car **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960 "2013-07-19T17:44:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/1 "2013-07-19T17:44:35Z")
Just wondering…if we gave every household in the entire USA a FREE electric car, would that solve enough problems to make it worthwhile? Just thinking of short term and long term effects: 1. Cleaner air. 2. Drastic drop in use of oil 3. No need to continue fracking and pipelines and off shore drilling. 4. Never a need to go to war (directly or indirectly) based upon oil reserves 5. Imports of oil would drop to about zero. 6. Might make a difference in global warming fairly quickly - even if it was just the USA doing this. 7. Vastly improving the technology of electric cars as they become “the norm”. 8. Giving mobility to the masses (although you might make an exception in some larger cities and offer locals FREE subway/bus transport instead) 9. Instant savings to average household by not having to pay for gallons of gas. Granted, the original investment might be a tad pricey, and take awhile to roll out, but is there a chance this could pay for itself over time and be worthwhile? And yes, I know it takes all kinds of fossil fuels to produce electricity, but certainly less than powering every car on the road with gas. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/2 "2013-07-19T18:02:59Z")
I agree that this would make a dent in greenhouse gas emissions, but it is using other resources to manufacture the cars. If nothing else, there is something to be said for the thrift of keeping the old cars in service as long as they would have normally. I’m not supporting this but perhaps it would be better if there were a dollar bonus for every year you can keep your old car before getting an electric. Plus, to a large extent prices are a gauge of consumption of resources, so all else being equal electric cars are more expensive because they consume more resources to build than other cars. So this may help the greenhouse gas emissions problem (although only around 20% of GHG emissions are from transportation anyway,) but cause a resource problem in other areas such as perhaps certain metals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/3 "2013-07-19T18:49:53Z")
Plus, you’d have to do it again every 5-10 years, otherwise you’re back where you started from pretty quickly. Unless you think that in 5-10 years electric cars will be at price parity with gas powered cars. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/4 "2013-07-19T19:02:55Z")
I doubt it would make any difference WRT oil or emissions. If people are going to be charging up all these ECs, where is all that electricity coming from? Probably oil-burning power plants, yes? You’d just be moving the consumption of oil and emissions from cars to large power plants, and we’d probably need more of them to supply electricity to all these new users. May be a wash? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/5 "2013-07-19T19:08:45Z")
It would most likely be pushed onto natural gas fired power plants which are increasing in importance and will probably continue to do so. For that reason, it would not really be an end to fracking (which has no real proven problems compared to ordinary drilling–the problems are inherent to drilling and there isn’t much evidence many substantial ones are inherent to hydraulic fracturing), pipelines, or things of that nature. If it wasn’t being powered by natural gas, it’d mean a resurgence in coal, which would be much worse for the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/6 "2013-07-19T19:14:56Z")
Are we talking about the electric cars that are currently available? I can see untold hundreds of little cars stuck in rush-hour traffic as the battery runs out, causing massive traffic jams. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/7 "2013-07-19T19:33:44Z")
Can our grid handle all-EV? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/8 "2013-07-19T19:37:37Z")
Electric cars don’t meet the daily or recreational car needs of a big percentage of the US public, so a lot of them wouldn’t get used. There’s no infrastructure for a good chunk of the US either (I park on the street, no charger) so it would be useless to me. I’d have to keep my current car (long distance travel with no chargers available) so that means double the parking/maintenance/insurance needs. We have one hybrid (Prius) that meets a lot of our needs and that would be a much better overall solution for the vast majority of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/9 "2013-07-19T19:38:40Z")
What’s the largest all-electric passenger car today? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/10 "2013-07-19T19:43:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What’s the largest all-electric passenger car today? Maybe the [Tesla S](http://www.teslamotors.com/models)? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/11 "2013-07-19T19:55:04Z")
Oil is used for several other things besides making gasoline. A quick Google search found [this page](http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/energy-overview/fossil-fuels/), which estimates that about 45% of each barrel of oil goes to gasoline for use in automobiles. So more than half of the oil we produce/import goes to things other than gasoline. So giving away electric cars won’t get rid of the need to continue producing oil. We’ll still have use for fracking, pipelines, and offshore drilling. In addition, as others have pointed out, [switching to electrical cars won’t necessarily have much of an impact on greenhouse emissions](http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/unclean-at-any-speed), since the electrical power has to come from somewhere: > [@](#): > > For instance, Richard Pike of the Royal Society of Chemistry provocatively determined that electric cars, if widely adopted, stood to lower Britain’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 2 percent, given the U.K.’s electricity sources. Last year, a U.S. Congressional Budget Office study found that electric car subsidies “will result in little or no reduction in the total gasoline use and greenhouse-gas emissions of the nation’s vehicle fleet over the next several years.” And keep in mind that electric cars are fine for short(er) trips. But electrical cars tend to be smaller and have less power. Some people have pickups or SUVs for a reason. Those 18 wheelers aren’t going anywhere. So people are likely to still need more powerful gas engines. Also, according to [this Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions), the US produces about 18% of all the world’s carbon dioxide emissions. Giving electric cars to the American people might make a dent in global emissions, but the rest of the world would continue to produce carbon dioxide. In fact, it’s likely that the rest of the world’s oil consumption would actually _increase_. If the US’s demand for oil decreased significantly, the price of oil would drop. If oil is cheaper, then other countries will be able to use more oil, and have more incentive to base their infrastructure on oil production. As for the “instant savings” from not having to pay for gas, well, I’m not so sure that makes sense. The electical cars wouldn’t actually be “free.” Because the money to buy those cars has to come from somewhere. The government gets its money from the people through taxes. So essentially, every person with a car would be buying a new one, whether they need it – or can afford it – or not. That’s a very expensive proposition. People would have to save a ton of money on gas over the life of the car to make that worthwhile. I doubt the “savings” on gas would actually justify spending tens of thousands of dollars on an electrical car. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/12 "2013-07-19T19:59:02Z")
Let’s see: 100 million households times $30,000 per car is 3 trillion dollars. That is about 20% of US GDP. Over 5 years that’s around 4% of GDP per year. That is not impossible but extremely difficult given that the US has looming structural deficits because of Medicare and finds it difficult to raise taxes. And as mentioned you would have to do it more than once ,incur massive expenses to build a charging infrastructure and generate the electricity to charge all those cars. So yeah, this is not a practical idea. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/13 "2013-07-19T20:03:04Z")
Some families might need 2 cars(and some families in Utah may need 3 or 4.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/14 "2013-07-19T20:05:56Z")
> [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](#): > > I doubt the “savings” on gas would actually justify spending tens of thousands of dollars on an electrical car. For the Prius, I’ve calculated that it would almost exactly pay for itself versus a similar non-bottom-of-the-line but still cheap large compact/midsize. ETA: but I still plan on getting one for my next car due to the convenience of having to fill up less often. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/15 "2013-07-19T20:20:17Z")
And how are you proposing we deal with the millions of unemployed workers after tanking\* the demand for domestic oil? Those 9.2 million jobs aren’t going to be magically replaced by something with equivalent pay. Auto manufacturing is a pretty goddamn miserable and low-paying industry by comparison. \*heheh ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/16 "2013-07-19T23:21:50Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Let’s see: 100 million households times $30,000 per car is 3 trillion dollars. That is about 20% of US GDP. Over 5 years that’s around 4% of GDP per year. That is not impossible but extremely difficult given that the US has looming structural deficits because of Medicare and finds it difficult to raise taxes. And as mentioned you would have to do it more than once ,incur massive expenses to build a charging infrastructure and generate the electricity to charge all those cars. > > So yeah, this is not a practical idea. To put it another way, the entire revenue of federal income taxes is under two trillion dollars. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/17 "2013-07-19T23:31:06Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > And how are you proposing we deal with the millions of unemployed workers after tanking\* the demand for domestic oil? Those 9.2 million jobs aren’t going to be magically replaced by something with equivalent pay. Auto manufacturing is a pretty goddamn miserable and low-paying industry by comparison. > > \*heheh They’re Free Marketers, they won’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/18 "2013-07-19T23:34:49Z")
Better to drop solar on every single building across the West and South via tax credits (not deductions). Turn every rooftop into a mini power plant FIRST. Once that is done, you can start with the generous tax credits towards the cars. Further, make all cars with an MPG of \>50 to be on the list for the accelerated depreciation schedule that trucks are on. All the doctors can buy a Tesla instead of a Mercedes truck. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/19 "2013-07-19T23:46:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They’re Free Marketers, they won’t mind. Sure, everyone from oil executives down to hourly truck drivers are just members of a libertarian hive mind. :rolleyes: Oh, add to the above figure the massive numbers of gas station owners/employees who’d end up out of work. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960/20 "2013-07-20T01:35:34Z")
Even apart from the money aspects, it’s impossible to make all those electric cars - and they are going to cost much, MUCH more than a mere $30k apiece. Sure, you might argue that we can buy in bulk and save… except that won’t happen. The infrastructure isn’t there, and I’m frankly not even certain we can ramp it up that high no matter what we pay. To even deliver that many cars in a _decade_, you’d need emergency construction of many new factories, companies, pipelines of product - all built at massive cost due to being an instant demands, and all the owners planning that you would stop paying for new stuff soon. I’d quadruple your expected cost. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-if-we-gave-every-household-in-the-usa-a-free-electric-car/663960.md?page=2)