# So I'll take it to the Pit... (re: Miss Kaitlyn's first day) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418 "2005-01-06T17:55:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/61 "2005-01-07T20:51:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Damn, that was fucked up, **Clothahump**. However, having run into you in the past, I’m completely unsurprised. And where was that, pray tell? I don’t recognize your handle; if I’ve run into you in the past, I don’t remember it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/62 "2005-01-07T21:07:51Z")
> [@](#): > > stand behind my statement: someone with XY is male, period. At least as far as we know now; sometime in the future, medical science might be able to change that, but they can’t today. This is not even scientifically accuarate. It is simply your own binary view of the world in which science and reality are supposed to bend before your obstinate ignorance. (Note that science already recognizes XX males and XY females among humans even without the issues of transgender surgery, so your declaration I quoted is just bigotry dressed up as ignorance.) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/63 "2005-01-07T21:10:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I posted an absolutely true statement . . . No, you posted your opinion. An “absolutely true statement” would be that you are a _shmegegi_. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/64 "2005-01-07T21:22:41Z")
This position of **Clothahump** ’s does not seem to be the sort of holding that is considered with an open mind but with more of an “I have made up my mind and that is it. I am not accepting any more input until further notice. Please make sure you close the door on your way out.” approach. What of value such a person would find here escapes me, since part of the fun of this place is having your positions challenged and considering that you might not have it completely right. If someone doesn’t want to discuss (as in “the exchange and consideration of opinions” rather than “two parties arguing back and forth, at least one ignoring any merit the other might have”) something, there isn’t a hell of a lot that can be accomplished for the good in that particular instance. On the other hand, there may yet be someone reading who holds to what **Clothahump** does not because of the novelty of raising ire but out of a lack of knowledge; that person, then, would be served by a cursory examination into the error of the stated position. Based on that probability, it might be wise to attempt some sort of education, and in the original meaning of the word. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/65 "2005-01-07T21:39:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > someone with XY is male, period. I think we all knew that **Kaitlyn** has male genes BEFORE you oh-so-tactfully pointed that out. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/66 "2005-01-07T21:57:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Could I have phrased it differently? Sure. Would it have made a bit of difference? Probably not. Could you have kept your fucking mouth shut instead of pissing all over someone else’s declaration of happiness? Definitely. Y’all can keep debating the whole transsexuality thing if you want (although I’d think it’d be better to just leave the people alone and stop dragging them out for vivisection and psychoanalysis, even if you think you’re doing it in their defense). But the part that isn’t in question is whether you acted like an asshole in that thread, and whether your comment was rude and inappropriate. It was. And the only thing I know for 100% sure about what it means to be a man is that a _real_ man would apologize for it. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/67 "2005-01-07T22:13:05Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > He was born a man. He will die a man. If the genes ring up the old XY, that’s male and there is nothing that we can do about it, at least not at this point in time. The fact that he has had surgery, dresses like a woman, acts like a woman and calls himself a woman does not make him a woman. And you should be very aware that the person has asked to be addressed as “she”. Regardless of your opinion of the rightness of your position, to continue to ignore the expressed wishes of someone makes you a fucking jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/68 "2005-01-07T22:14:35Z")
Whoops, I should make it clear that the quote above is from the GD thread on this subject, not here. Sorry about any confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/69 "2005-01-07T22:17:30Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And you should be very aware that the person has asked to be addressed as “she”. Regardless of your opinion of the rightness of your position, to continue to ignore the expressed wishes of someone makes you a fucking jerk. When you address me, do so as “My Lord.” If you fail to do so, you are a fucking jerk. Wanna take just a minute and think about how ridiculous your post was? And you’re ripping me…? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/70 "2005-01-07T22:26:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > When you address me, do so as “My Lord.” > > If you fail to do so, you are a fucking jerk. > > Wanna take just a minute and think about how ridiculous your post was? And you’re ripping me…? Nobility titles are illegal in the US. And you certainly haven’t earned the title as one of respect. So, no, you don’t have the right to be addressed as “My Lord”. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/71 "2005-01-07T22:28:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Wanna take just a minute and think about how ridiculous your post was? Penis ensued. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/72 "2005-01-07T22:37:52Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Penis ensued. Or, if **Kaitlin** won’t mind a bit of levity, _lack of_ penis ensued! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/73 "2005-01-07T22:45:34Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Or, if **Kaitlin** won’t mind a bit of levity, _lack of_ penis ensued! 😉 There’s a _Waiting for Godot_ joke in there somewhere, but I for one am not going to try to wrest it from where it is comfortably nestled. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/74 "2005-01-07T22:45:37Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Or, if **Kaitlin** won’t mind a bit of levity, _lack of_ penis ensued! 😉 Please note for future reference, we have two Dopers with very similar names: **Kaitlyn** , formerly known as Number Six and currently posting about her first day back to school, and **Kaitlin** , who most recently participated in the Guilty Pleasures thread in IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/75 "2005-01-07T22:51:41Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Well, this is fascinating, to say the least. > > I posted an absolutely true statement and we are up to three pages ripping me a new one for doing it. I stand behind my statement: someone with XY is male, period. At least as far as we know now; sometime in the future, medical science might be able to change that, but they can’t today. > > Could I have phrased it differently? Sure. Would it have made a bit of difference? Probably not. Well, then I can only assume that you don’t mind being called a mannerless bigot with the sort of personal charm one normally finds in gangrenous invertebrates? It is, after all, every bit as true an observation as your own. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/76 "2005-01-07T22:52:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I posted an absolutely true statement and we are up to three pages ripping me a new one for doing it. Even if your statement was true (which it wasn’t), telling the absolute truth does not automatically mean you’re not being an asshole. For example, walking up to someone and volunteering how unattractive you think they are is assholish behavior; it doesn’t matter whether or not it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/77 "2005-01-07T23:02:57Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Could I have phrased it differently? Sure. Would it have made a bit of difference? Probably not. It would have made a great difference if you hadn’t phrased it at all. That’s the REAL issue. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve opened a thread, found an OP and discussion I completely disagreed with, and…decided not to post because a) the subject was inconsequential to me and/or most people b) my input would add nothing to the discussion; in fact c) it would be badly received and probably hijack the topic d) if a thread isn’t hurting anyone and people are enjoying it, why shit in it? What, pray tell, is so important to you about **Kaitlyn’s** identity that you couldn’t resist posting that drive-by? ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/78 "2005-01-07T23:25:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > When you address me, do so as “My Lord.” > > If you fail to do so, you are a fucking jerk. > > Wanna take just a minute and think about how ridiculous your post was? And you’re ripping me…? This is hardly parallel unless you truly believe you are The Lord. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/79 "2005-01-07T23:46:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I posted an absolutely true statement **Why** did you post it? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418/80 "2005-01-07T23:47:43Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > **Why** did you post it? Because he’s an asshole. D’oh! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ill-take-it-to-the-pit-re-miss-kaitlyns-first-day/283418.md?page=5)