# So, I'm being sued for $165,000. That's cool. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705 "2012-10-24T07:01:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/81 "2012-10-25T18:22:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In an ideal legal world and assuming a significant equity in the house, your uncle would quit claim the house so your Mom owns it 100% and everything is called even between them. Then Mom assumes the loan, rents it out to pay for the mortgage, sells it, whatever she wants to do. The problem is making it legal through probate, the status of the loan after ownership change. IIRC most mortgage loans are non-assumable which means that are assumable with lender permission but death/heirage may trump that. My mom is a sweet woman, but she’s far from savvy. She doesn’t work and hasn’t for years, she lives with a family member (none of the parties mentioned here though), and I am certain her credit is far too poor for her to ever qualify for a mortgage. And heck, if she _could_ get the mortgage, she’d be completely dependent on rent to pay it, leaving no cushion for normal landlord expenses. In my mind, literally the worst thing that could happen here (short of me having to pay $165,000 in a judgment) is my mom having to pay something here. She literally doesn’t even have the means to retain council. That said, if they got a judgment against her, there’s literally nothing for them to levy to get the money anyway. Myself and my uncle though? We do work, we own things, and we both have decent credit. If I had to guess, I’d say he makes about $150,000 a year to my $50k or so. He owns a home, I don’t. He owns 2 or 3 cars, plus at least as many motorcycles— I don’t personally own any vehicles. My income mostly is from corporate dividends, whereas his is wages— which says to me he’s the one that would get levied here for any judgment, not me. Anyway, I’m just babbling here. Thank you all for babbling along with me. It’s interesting discussing all of this. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/82 "2012-10-25T18:42:01Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > A process server came to my dad’s house and served it to him on my behalf. I don’t live at that address, but I suspect this is because where I live is gated and they wouldn’t be able to get in. > > The papers were served on Monday the 15th of October and it says I have 30 days from the date of service to respond. You should talk to your attorney as to whether you were properly served. I’m not certain you were: in general, you must be served personally or at your residence (on a family member or a person over 13 who lives with you). Service on a relative but not at you home could be insufficient. This will just mean that they will re-serve, but the thirty days runs from proper service. So it will buy you some time. Again, talk to your attorney about these jurisdictional points. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/83 "2012-10-25T19:04:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > LOL. Your post is just adorable in its naivete. > > The “theatrics” that I was talking about, which should be clear to anyone, was pulling stunts like making silly threats to the opposition and alerting the media. > > As had been pointed out many times in this thread, free legal aid is available for people who don’t have the funds to hire a lawyer. Not that this matters because the OP can afford one. The “theatrics,” the “silly games” you were talking about were a product of your fevered imagination. I never suggested doing anything of the sort. “But wait!” you think. “Your post is right up there!” Indeed it is. Look at the first few words of it: > [@me](#): > > Yeah–I’m wondering whether… If you’re not clear on what they mean, grab a Sharpie and underline “wondering” on your screen. **Kimmy** , unlike you, came in with a persuasive answer to my question. To wit, what I asked about would not be a good plan. I’m convinced. You, on the other hand, blew smoke around and acted like I was doing something I wasn’t. Shame shame shame. Okay, back to the interesting thread, and if you need to defend your manhood or whatever, haj, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/84 "2012-10-25T19:17:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The “theatrics,” the “silly games” you were talking about were a product of your fevered imagination. I never suggested doing anything of the sort. > > “But wait!” you think. “Your post is right up there!” > > Indeed it is. Look at the first few words of it: > > If you’re not clear on what they mean, grab a Sharpie and underline “wondering” on your screen. > > **Kimmy** , unlike you, came in with a persuasive answer to my question. To wit, what I asked about would not be a good plan. I’m convinced. > > You, on the other hand, blew smoke around and acted like I was doing something I wasn’t. Shame shame shame. > > Okay, back to the interesting thread, and if you need to defend your manhood or whatever, haj, go for it. My manhood is beyond dispute and doesn’t need defending, particularly from you, but if you say that you were being hypothetical, I’ll take you at your word. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/85 "2012-10-25T20:25:56Z")
My guy here locally just advised me to retain someone in Illinois. Anybody have any recommendations for me? We’re talking Chicago area, out in the suburbs (Downers Grove/ Naperville/ etc). Or how to find a decent lawyer? Goddamnit. . . ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/86 "2012-10-25T20:31:07Z")
I don’t have any advice but I’m cheering for you. I’d wish you luck, but if your past posts are anything to go by you’re too savvy to need it. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/87 "2012-10-25T21:00:51Z")
Let’s keep any whiff of manhood out of legal threads. The testosterone’s thick enough in real courtrooms. IOW, dial back the snark. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/88 "2012-10-26T00:02:34Z")
Am I the only one that thinks the house could have been a non-probate asset? A revocable Trust? A Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship deed? Discussion of said theory spoilered because it’s long, boring, and, most likely wrong. I can see two relatively common possibilities. First, a house can be left in a [revocable trust](http://www.illinoisestateplan.com/sub/index.jsp?contentid=9xQqCdoB1fvG0HHSJHvg4TSB) to pass at death. The revocable trust is actually a popular method of disposing of property, because [foggy remembrance] non-probate assets don’t count towards the estate tax dollar-value limit and you can revise the terms as much as you like.[/fr] If granny hated the gubmint even more than you, perhaps she took steps to keep it from being taxed by entrusting it – in a manner intended to induce maximum rancor in the family. Bonus! Or, it can be deeded in joint tenancy with right of survivorship. That means its deeded to two or more people as joint owners, and whoever’s left alive at the end owns it all. Better yet for evil grannies, everyone not named as JTWRS is barred from inheriting any interest in the house. In at least some jurisdictions, co-tenants (co-owners) don’t have to agree to co-ownership or even know about it. I had a client who had been told she would “inherit” the house and had no idea she was presently the 1/3 owner, jointly with the still-living parent and a sibling. In either case, there is no probate process and the transfer happens by operation of law (without any human interferance). Now the chances that mean ol’ grandma entrusted or deeded her house to a distant and hated relation are rather slim, but believe you me, stranger things have happened. ## Am I crazy here? Damnit, where’s my “Examples and Explanations”…?? Anyway, every state that I’m aware of and most large cities have a referral service offered as service by the Bar association. Here ya go: [Illinois State Bar Ass’n Laywer Referral Service](http://www.illinoislawyerfinder.com/find-a-lawyer) or [Chicago Bar Lawyer Referral Service](http://www.chicagobar.org/am/template.cfm?section=need_a_lawyer). My mom was recently able to resolve a dispute that had been weighing greatly on her mind with a $30 referral consultation from a Bar Association and came away very happy. Not every problem can be resolved so quickly but many can when you talk to someone familiar with the subject matter. I always wanted one of [these](http://www.cafepress.com/lawschooltees.46195978). explanation for nonlawyers: Law School Property class essay questions generally involve a mythical (and apparently tremendously desirable) parcel of land called Blackacre, the death of a shadowdy figure named O, and a long, perplexing battle of rights, the description of which takes up an entire single-spaced page. And ends with the question: “Who owns Blackacre?” ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/89 "2012-10-26T00:07:56Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Hire a lawyer, frankly anyone with a debt/estate practice should do. > > Then, because I’m a bastard, have him sue your uncle for your lawyer’s fees. That’s not being a bastard, that’s being a realist. And I’d sue the debt collection agency and GMAC as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/90 "2012-10-26T00:41:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And I’d sue the debt collection agency and GMAC as well. On what grounds? The famous tort of “I want some money!” perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/91 "2012-10-26T00:47:12Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > On what grounds? The famous tort of “I want some money!” perhaps? _They’re A Rich Greedy Corporation_ sounds in tort as well. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/92 "2012-10-26T00:58:32Z")
**DiosaBellisima** - **Dinsdale** is a lawyer and was living in Chicago, though he’s now moved and is a judge. If you PM him, he might be able to give you a name of someone to represent you. StG ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/93 "2012-10-26T02:36:23Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Am I the only one that thinks the house could have been a non-probate asset? A revocable Trust? A Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship deed? > > Discussion of said theory spoilered because it’s long, boring, and, most likely wrong. > > I can see two relatively common possibilities. First, a house can be left in a [revocable trust](http://www.illinoisestateplan.com/sub/index.jsp?contentid=9xQqCdoB1fvG0HHSJHvg4TSB) to pass at death. The revocable trust is actually a popular method of disposing of property, because [foggy remembrance] non-probate assets don’t count towards the estate tax dollar-value limit and you can revise the terms as much as you like.[/fr] If granny hated the gubmint even more than you, perhaps she took steps to keep it from being taxed by entrusting it – in a manner intended to induce maximum rancor in the family. Bonus! > > Or, it can be deeded in joint tenancy with right of survivorship. That means its deeded to two or more people as joint owners, and whoever’s left alive at the end owns it all. Better yet for evil grannies, everyone not named as JTWRS is barred from inheriting any interest in the house. In at least some jurisdictions, co-tenants (co-owners) don’t have to agree to co-ownership or even know about it. I had a client who had been told she would “inherit” the house and had no idea she was presently the 1/3 owner, jointly with the still-living parent and a sibling. > > In either case, there is no probate process and the transfer happens by operation of law (without any human interferance). > > Now the chances that mean ol’ grandma entrusted or deeded her house to a distant and hated relation are rather slim, but believe you me, stranger things have happened. > > ## Am I crazy here? Damnit, where’s my “Examples and Explanations”…?? > > [/SIZE] I think that it might be in a Trust of some description as well. "UNKNOWN SUCCESSOR TRUSTEE, AS TRUSTEE UNDER [grandmother] DECLARATION OF TRUST, DATED xx/xx/xx; appears in the caption provided by Diosa. I think that there is a possibility that Diosa’s grandmother had a living trust of some description and that she may have filed a deed transferring the house into the Trust. I think that it is less likely that she added her two kids and grand kids to the deed, just because something like that can’t be undone easily. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/94 "2012-10-26T03:39:54Z")
Diosa, just a point that I can’t follow in your original post (I have read the responses but can’t see a reference to it). You mention when your Grandmother died you found out about it on FB and then contacted your Uncle. However, you speak to your mother- wouldn’t she have known about your Grandmothers death? (This has no bearing on the advice btw). ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/95 "2012-10-26T15:45:41Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > **DiosaBellisima** - **Dinsdale** is a lawyer and was living in Chicago, though he’s now moved and is a judge. If you PM him, he might be able to give you a name of someone to represent you. > > StG Thank you for this- I’ll do that. 🙂 > [@Cicero](#): > > Diosa, just a point that I can’t follow in your original post (I have read the responses but can’t see a reference to it). > > You mention when your Grandmother died you found out about it on FB and then contacted your Uncle. However, you speak to your mother- wouldn’t she have known about your Grandmothers death? (This has no bearing on the advice btw). My mother and grandmother rather famously had a bad relationship for my mom’s entire life. Grandma was awful in general, but her less awful qualities. . . well, let me put it this way: I suspect the source of their contempt for one another is that they were too much alike. The primary difference is that my mom doesn’t have a malicious bone in her body, while grandma was all malicious. My mom found out from me, after I found out through Facebook. Uncle left me a voicemail last night after my mom called and told him I was advised to get an attorney. In his message, he said he called GMAC’s attorney again and left a voicemail, and “left a message with the lady attorney who handled grandma’s will.” So, uh, apparently there is a will now? Da fuq? I’ve chatted with a few attorneys since yesterday and I’ve been quoted fees ranging from $300-$3500, depending on the attorney. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/96 "2012-10-26T17:39:56Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > . . . In his message, he said he called GMAC’s attorney again and left a voicemail, and “left a message with the lady attorney who handled grandma’s will.” So, uh, apparently there is a will now? . . . . Maybe there is, and maybe not. It’s possible he just meant “estate.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/97 "2012-10-26T17:52:43Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’ve chatted with a few attorneys since yesterday and I’ve been quoted fees ranging from $300-$3500, depending on the attorney. Sigh. My dad died intestate and the ex-wife (his third) got caught trying to steal the estate from him on his deathbed but the judge to not piss her off 😕 appointed her executrix.. Since my sister and I were the obvious heirs, our attorney did an awesome job and didn’t charge us (an extremely fair fee) until the executrix cut us a check. Maybe you can find a similar deal if there is equity in the house. Question for Illinois lawyers: Can someone be the executor for an estate they are heir to? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/98 "2012-10-26T17:56:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maybe you can find a similar deal if there is equity in the house. I was actually curious if this was the type of thing that’s ever handled on contingency. I mean, assuming I wanted to shake things up (which I’m not sure I do). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/99 "2012-10-26T18:04:57Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I was actually curious if this was the type of thing that’s ever handled on contingency. I mean, assuming I wanted to shake things up (which I’m not sure I do). Strangely enough, after the retainer the likelihood of your attorney working on contingency and cutting a good fee rate for you is directly proportional to how much the other side (GMAC & your uncle) pisses them off. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705/100 "2012-10-26T18:18:25Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Question for Illinois lawyers: Can someone be the executor for an estate they are heir to? I’m pretty sure that’s common, and know that when my grandfather died (in Wisconsin), he had appointed one of his (inheriting) daughters as the executrix on his will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-being-sued-for-165-000-thats-cool/638705.md?page=6)