# So I'm Finally Watching Buffy... \[Progressive unboxed spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107 "2010-05-11T22:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/1 "2010-05-11T22:25:14Z")
My husband and I are finally watching Buffy to see what all the fuss is about. I don’t know exactly how to describe my reaction to this show. You know how when you first see _Firefly_, you’re like, ‘‘Holy shit, this is genius, this is amazing, this is rocking my face off, earth-shattering television?’’ Well, that’s exactly how I don’t feel watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don’t want anyone to misunderstand me though–I’m definitely hooked. It’s weird, funny, campy, somewhat cleverly satirical and is getting better (We’re on Season 2, Episode 5, just finished the ‘‘Halloween’’ episode where everyone turned into their costume… creative.) The characters are fun, I love Willow, I always loved that actress long before I tried watching the Buffy show. And Giles makes me swoony. Even Angel’s growing on me now that he says more than two words per episode. I was just under the impression I was in for an epic and complex experience that would defy my previous conceptualization of television. Instead, not gonna lie, I’m getting heavy-handed writing, inconsistent acting and some of the most ridiculous plot-points known to man. I mean, the body count is rising so fast at Sunnydale High School I don’t know why any parent in their right mind would keep their child matriculated there. The hyena students ate the principal? Really? No really, I love it. I just don’t love it the way I love _Battlestar Galactica_ or _DS9_, or, for that matter, _Firefly_. I love it the way I loved _Are You Afraid of the Dark?_ when I was a kid. A love no less real, but different, a love built upon a foundation of ridiculous plot points and lovable, predictable characters. _Buffy_ is the popcorn of the television world, but it’s the good popcorn, with the drizzly butter and the perfect amount of salt and maybe a dash of Parmesan cheese. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/2 "2010-05-11T22:26:20Z")
What season are you on? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/3 "2010-05-11T22:29:02Z")
She said Season 2, episode 5, AKA just before the shit hits the fan. \*\*olivesmarch4th \*\*- finish the season, and then we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/4 "2010-05-11T22:29:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What season are you on? The beginning of Season Two. They just introduced Spike, and he killed the Anointed One and has been trying unsuccessfully (about three times now) to kill the slayer. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/5 "2010-05-11T22:30:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > She said Season 2, episode 5, AKA just before the shit hits the fan. > > \*\*olivesmarch4th \*\*- finish the season, and then we’ll talk. Sweet. I was hoping for an answer like this. ---
**Author:** ![kathmandu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kathmandu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kathmandu)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/6 "2010-05-11T22:32:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > \*\*olivesmarch4th \*\*- finish the season, and then we’ll talk. Seconded. I liked the series at the beginning, but loved it towards the end of season 2. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyMac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@JohnnyMac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyMac)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/7 "2010-05-11T22:34:58Z")
I always took it as a comedy. They _know_ there are too many deaths in their high school - I mean the students, in the school, they know. It’s all acknowledged within the show and used comedically - I agree there are places that made me wonder about it, but in the end, that show never missed a step. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/8 "2010-05-11T22:36:21Z")
Yeah, like most Whedon shows (with the notable exception of _Firefly_, of course), it takes a bit for the show to hit its stride. Season 1, and a good bit of season 2, are merely good TV. Let us know when you see Hush, or the musical. I envy anyone who gets to watch those for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/9 "2010-05-11T22:37:32Z")
You will never find a bigger Buffy booster than me–I will state categorically that it’s the greatest series in the history of American television–but I agree 100% with your assessment of the first couple seasons. The epic and complex experience that will defy your previous conceptualization of television develops over the life of the series. You’ll get there, just stick with it. In general terms, it develops gradually from smart teen comedy to brilliant and layered examination of the nature of being human over a pretty consistent arc. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/10 "2010-05-11T22:47:22Z")
Like they said…wait for it. In about 6 episodes you will understand. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/11 "2010-05-11T22:59:47Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > And Giles makes me swoony. If you like the actor, as well as Giles, find the Masterpiece theatre version of _Persuasion_ he was in. Even Capitan Tightpants got nuthin’ on Giles in a frock coat. I’ll be in mah bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/12 "2010-05-11T23:03:48Z")
I’m catching up on Buffy too, and I have a bit more of a challenge for all the Buffy boosters that have chimed in so far. You see, a little while back I went through all of seasons 1 and 2. At the end of season two, when the shit hit the fan, my reaction was … “Oh, she did it. Okay.” The girl I was dating at the time, a long time Buffy fan who was watching it with me, said she still can’t watch Angel’s death without tearing up. I got no emotional reaction from it. It’s like Joss’ depiction of Angel returning to his soulful self failed to register, coupled with there being no doubt in my mind that the good guys would win. After two or so years of not watching, I’m now watching season 3. It is better than 1 and 2, and it’s very good, but I’m still where **olives** is. It’s just not earth-shattering. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/13 "2010-05-11T23:04:28Z")
I am jealous! The ride is just beginning. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/14 "2010-05-11T23:14:23Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > I’m catching up on Buffy too, and I have a bit more of a challenge for all the Buffy boosters that have chimed in so far. You see, a little while back I went through all of seasons 1 and 2. At the end of season two, when the shit hit the fan, my reaction was … “Oh, she did it. Okay.” The girl I was dating at the time, a long time Buffy fan who was watching it with me, said she still can’t watch Angel’s death without tearing up. I got no emotional reaction from it. It’s like Joss’ depiction of Angel returning to his soulful self failed to register, coupled with there being no doubt in my mind that the good guys would win. > > After two or so years of not watching, I’m now watching season 3. It is better than 1 and 2, and it’s very good, but I’m still where **olives** is. It’s just not earth-shattering. As you’ll note, even the series’ biggest fans were at the same point after season 2. In other words, if all you’ve seen so far is the first two seasons, you still haven’t seen what made the show really great. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/15 "2010-05-11T23:16:28Z")
…Or, y’know, you just might not have your world rocked. I agree that the series grows quite a bit by the end of season 2, and seasons 3 and 5 include some terrific TV, but don’t be surprised if you’re not worshipping at the Whedon throne like everyone else. OTOH, you’re clearly a huge _Firefly_ fan, so perhaps his style is right up your alley. Me, I enjoy a lot of _Buffy_ and there are episodes that are extraordinarily emotional, funny, scary and imaginative, but it didn’t change the way I view TV or anything orgasmic the way some fans describe it. (I viewed it “live,” during its original run, so this isn’t the viewpoint of someone who just doesn’t “get” how gamechanging the series was in context of its original airing – like a neophyte watching _Casablanca_ and saying “I don’t see what’s so special, every other line was a cliche!”) I just find a lot of Whedon’s writing a bit overfond of its own cleverness. It _is_ often clever, but not always as much as it thinks it is. If that makes any sense… But its ambition is admirable, and it’s certainly gripping melodrama. Definitely don’t judge it until you hit _Becoming_! I just think the unbelievably grandiose praise from its enthusiastic fans may actually hurt the show a bit. People may end up expecting more than the show… hell, _any_ show… can deliver. I think it’d be a shame to be disappointed because it didn’t live up to the overblown hyperbole of its fans, rather than just enjoying the show on its own merits. Best to come to it, uh, _Tabula Rasa_. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/16 "2010-05-11T23:17:49Z")
The season 2 finale is probably my fave episode. Keep watching. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/17 "2010-05-11T23:35:12Z")
> [@choie](#): > > worshipping at the Whedon throne like everyone else > orgasmic the way some fans describe it > unbelievably grandiose praise from its enthusiastic fans > overblown hyperbole of its fans It’s also possible to enjoy it without denigrating, with patronizing and condescending language, those whose opinions differ from yours. Lots of people like things I don’t like, or don’t like as much; lots of things that I just get the appeal of have huge followings. I don’t find myself needing to belittle their opinions in order to feel better about my own. As often as I see people waxing lyrical in their appreciation of Whedon, just as frequently I see others putting them down for it. Some people want to know what’s with the fervency of Whedon fans; I want to know what’s with the vitriol of people who don’t count themselves as such? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/18 "2010-05-11T23:49:20Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > It’s also possible to enjoy it without denigrating, with patronizing and condescending language, those whose opinions differ from yours. > > Lots of people like things I don’t like, or don’t like as much; lots of things that I just get the appeal of have huge followings. I don’t find myself needing to belittle their opinions in order to feel better about my own. > > As often as I see people waxing lyrical in their appreciation of Whedon, just as frequently I see others putting them down for it. Some people want to know what’s with the fervency of Whedon fans; I want to know what’s with the vitriol of people who don’t count themselves as such? This, from _you_?!!! Oh man. That’s trippy. Well, I agree that I should apologize for insulting anyone by saying they worship at Whedon’s throne. That was condescending. Though I find it hard to believe what I said constitutes _vitriol_. I mean… come on now. Let’s get some perspective here. The rest, well, sorry, but the praise does seem like hyperbole to me. (Christ, and I even said I _like_ the show.) ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/19 "2010-05-12T00:11:21Z")
By the end of BtVS, I was tired of BtVS. **Angel** is the show of my heart and will always rank as my favorite television show of all time, but man did I hate Buffy. For like six years. Then about 2 weeks ago, my sister rewatched about 25 episodes and I watched them with her. Holy shit, I love that fucking show! Seeing it with fresh eyes has been a real treat. I think BtVS really starts getting good after about episode 13 or 14 of S2. And from there, I think there’s a steady improvement-- the stories, characters, and themes growing increasingly complex. I still have a few complaints about it (nothing that I’d want to get into in this thread), but it’s got so many strengths. For me, season 5 is probably the finest season of any tv show, ever (it’s certainly the one I’ve watched the most). ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/20 "2010-05-12T00:29:55Z")
> [@choie](#): > > This, from _you_?!!! That meme won’t fly; no one’s ever been able to find a cite. Whenever I ask for one I get two possible responses: silence, and apology. It’s just a meme that gets serially quoted as its own only evidence. But at least it gives you an excuse to be apparently unable to discuss this topic except in personally insulting terms. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107.md?page=2)