# So I'm Finally Watching Buffy... \[Progressive unboxed spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107 "2010-05-11T22:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/581 "2010-07-29T20:18:58Z")
Now you can understand some of the veiled comments about Marti (“The cop should have pistol-whipped her.”)(If you didn’t read the credits, she was the woman getting the parking ticket.) I’m quite sure that Whedon had the first verse of Yeats’ “The Second Coming” on his mind when he arced out this season. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/582 "2010-07-29T20:28:27Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I wanted to comment about an earlier episode, **Billy**. It was a great episode, but the idea of the ‘‘latent primordial misogyny’’ in all males coming to the surface in the form of brutal murder was a bit :rolleyes: for me. In a way it almost felt unintentionally misogynistic, almost patronizing to both women and men. I’ve got no beef with Whedon, in general I feel he is very respectful of his female characters. This episode just rubbed me the wrong way. > > I get how that scene between Wesley and Fred needed to happen though, and I also enjoyed the bitch-off between Cordy and Lila. So overall I thought they made it serve the characters. I’m not happy with Angel’s explanation that he is beyond hate and anger – that’s obviously not true if you watch the series. A better explanation is that he feels hate and anger every day but has learned to resist his impulses. So what Billy brought out in him was nothing new. > > Anyway, all of this is good stuff. We definitely feel like we’re in a good place. Wesley didn’t buy that explanation either, though I don’t know if that makes it better or worse. I personally think they would have been better off if they’d made it clear that Billy infected them with _his_ primordial anger and hate, rather than go with the idea that it was somehow “latent” in all men. Billy is a very hard episode for me to watch, because I really love Wesley so much, and Alexis Denisof really shows what an amazing actor he is as Wesley becomes increasingly terrifying. And then the crying at the end. ☹ Oh, the crying. Poor Wesley. ---
**Author:** ![Arwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/583 "2010-07-29T21:01:31Z")
I loved seasons 1,2,3 a tonne, and then with 6 they were ramping up to greatness again for the final season. Season 4 I really couldn’t stand very well (I neither liked the new good guys nor the new bad guys), and Season 5 partly just hit a little to close to home because my mom got cancer when I was slightly younger than B, though fortunately my mother is alive and very well today. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/584 "2010-07-29T23:30:36Z")
I just finished Season 1. I don’t mind spoilers too much, so I’ll read as deep in this thread as I dare. I’m number 4 in the queue for Season 2 in the local library lending system, and there were 5 or 6 copies listed, so maybe I won’t have to wait too long. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/585 "2010-07-29T23:35:22Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > This was truly beautiful. I actually kind of wish I hadn’t known it was a musical ahead of time, because if there’s one thing I appreciate about Buffy, it’s the WTF moments. They pretty much had this one in the bag from the beginning, because I love musicals. Yeah, the musical epsiode is head and shoulders above all the other cheap rip-offs done by other shows, and it was first. (Scrubs, How I Met Your Mother, etc…) Not only was the music well done, but everything served to move the plot forward. Plus it allowed Buffy’s secret to get out without burning any existing relationships. Well done all around. Don’t feel too bad about wishing you didn’t know it was a musical. They promoted the shit out of that episode before it aired. Not just on tv, either; you couldn’t turn on the radio without hearing the hype. **spacemandave** and his wife may be the only two people who were ever surprised by it. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/586 "2010-07-29T23:50:43Z")
Xena had two musical episodes. One in 1998, and another in 1999. \*Once More… \*aired in 2001. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/587 "2010-07-30T00:00:50Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > This was truly beautiful. I actually kind of wish I hadn’t known it was a musical ahead of time, because if there’s one thing I appreciate about Buffy, it’s the WTF moments. They pretty much had this one in the bag from the beginning, because I love musicals. Darn it!! I was so hoping we could keep you unspoiled on that point. Well, now you can go look at my spoiler in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12703105&postcount=459). You can even catch a glimpse of him in [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRqr368UIyY&feature=related) > [@](#): > > This is not an episode that works at all as a stand-alone because so many important things happen. Yup. that and it relies on a lot of backstory too. It’s hard to believe they were able to integrate it so seamlessly. Everything I’ve read says it took them several times as long as a normal episode to put this one together. > [@](#): > > I predict she is not heading down a good path. I admit my prediction may be motivated in part by [this series of posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12729479&postcount=35). Well, you can’t believe everything you read… drat! spoiled again! I was also spoiled on this point, and it made me sad. I loved the Dark Willow storyline, and wish I hadn’t seen it coming. ETA: and if you can’t get enough Joss musical-ness from OMWF, be sure to check out “Dr. Horrible’s Sing Along Blog” ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/588 "2010-07-30T00:01:01Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > Xena had two musical episodes. One in 1998, and another in 1999. \*Once More… \*aired in 2001. I stand corrected. Out of curiosity, were they any good? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/589 "2010-07-30T00:03:13Z")
\*Once More… \*is the only musical I don’t hate, so I can’t rightfully say. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/590 "2010-07-30T17:30:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > > [@Hades](#): > > > > Xena had two musical episodes. One in 1998, and another in 1999. \*Once More… \*aired in 2001. > > I stand corrected. Out of curiosity, were they any good? I thought the 1st one was very very good. The second one not as much, but still enjoyable. If you were a fan of the show. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/591 "2010-07-30T17:35:33Z")
I’ve actually considered going through Xena before, but I always suspected it was crap. Isn’t it? I loved Legend of the Seeker, by the way, which I believe came from the samer creators. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/592 "2010-07-30T17:46:20Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’ve actually considered going through Xena before, but I always suspected it was crap. Isn’t it? > > I loved Legend of the Seeker, by the way, which I believe came from the samer creators. It depends on what your definition of “crap” is. It was a made-for-cable syndicated show before they were popular (Monk, Burn Notice, Psych, etc). Was it a bit over the top and campy? You bet, but I’m not so sure after the first season or so it wasn’t done on purpose, and there were certainly episodes that played into it. I’ve only watched a couple episodes of Legend and from what I’ve seen, I think Xena is a stronger show. It would never win an Emmy, but I thought it was very enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/593 "2010-07-31T01:45:42Z")
I would definitely say give Xena a shot. It’s not on the level of Buffy, but is still very enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/594 "2010-07-31T02:49:35Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > I would definitely say give Xena a shot. It’s not on the level of Buffy, but is still very enjoyable. _Xena_ is also available on Netflix streaming. I’ve been watching it off & on. Not as good as _Buffy_–but often very good, indeed. Lots of campy fun, with some serious episodes, too. And interesting co-stars; after seeing Karl Urban play both Julius Caesar and Cupid, I believe he can do _anything!_ Also interesting to see the beautiful New Zealand landscapes soon reappearing as Middle Earth. Ngila Dickson costumed _Xena_ & _Hercules_–before _LOTR_. (Some episodes of _Hercules_ are even good enough to make up for Kevin Sorbo.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/595 "2010-07-31T14:57:06Z")
Angel Season 3’s episode **Birthday** - Epic. Best Angel episode ever!!! Yay, Cordy’s half demon! I love love love love this episode. I loved Skip the spirit guide. I loved crazy alternate universe Angel. So much goodness in such a limited amount of time. (Also watched **Provider**. This isn’t an easy plot arc for me at the moment due to personal things going on, but I do like the character development as Angel becomes a father and they try to figure out the pace of life.) As far as Buffy goes, just finished **Doublemeat Palace**. My only real comment there is Ewwwwwwwww. I’m pleased with Season 6 so far, not as good as Season 5 but really only one or two episodes I haven’t liked (I didn’t care for **Wrecked**. Parts of it were good but other parts just seemed a little clishéd.) So proud of Willow for getting through this tough time, I really didn’t think she would step up to the plate. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/596 "2010-07-31T15:39:29Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > As far as Buffy goes, just finished **Doublemeat Palace**. > > My only real comment there is Ewwwwwwwww. Now you see why Season Six can never get completely rave reviews. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/597 "2010-07-31T16:16:19Z")
Doublemeat Palace is the worst episode in the entire Buffyverse. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/598 "2010-07-31T16:53:02Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Doublemeat Palace is the worst episode in the entire Buffyverse. Indeed. I’m not one to play the “lalalala, that season/episode/movie never happened!” tune, but I’ll make an exception for Doublemeat Palace. Simply gross, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Ah, well. Even God made mosquitoes, so I guess Joss gets one free episode made of suck. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/599 "2010-07-31T17:26:39Z")
You say that only because you’ve so completely blocked Where the Wild Things Are from memory ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107/600 "2010-07-31T19:06:15Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > You say that only because you’ve so completely blocked Where the Wild Things Are from memory See, on second viewing, I kinda liked that one, for its metaphor whack over the head. Who hasn’t been utterly annoyed by their crazed sex poodle friends doin’ it nonstop, ignoring all crises around them because they’re so wrapped up in each other? Conversely, who hasn’t been so utterly wrapped up in someone that they’ve let things slide - school, family, job - nearly or literally into destruction? It’s not one of the strongest eps, to be sure, and it’s certainly a “this subtext is rapidly becoming text” one, but it’s not \*utterly \*without redeeming qualities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-im-finally-watching-buffy-progressive-unboxed-spoilers/539107.md?page=31)