# So, is acknowledging reality racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687 "2009-07-20T23:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/41 "2009-07-22T19:51:04Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’m not going to insult you, but I WILL say this: you obviously didn’t know your friend(s) nearly as well as you thought you did. I would be VERY wary of commenting on a black friend’s skin tone unless I was SURE that it wouldn’t be offensive. > > It’s not the same thing, but… would you tell an overweight female friend “This dress is perfect for you, because it hides your big butt”? No sane person should do that, UNLESS he/she is absolutely certain that it wouldn’t hurt the friend’s feelings. As much as I’d like to continue this, I must wonder why you brought up a total non-sequiter. Moreover, while being obese (as opposed to ordinary overweightness) is not really a good thing any way you slice it, what’s wrong with saying my pal is darker than me? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/42 "2009-07-22T19:57:02Z")
I…don’t really like having my color compared to obesity. Not that I really have a problem with obesity, but you know, I can’t change my color! I think it’s wrong that we can’t even comment on skin tone. I am downright envious of some black women - they have even skin tone, and it’s universally brown and it’s beautiful. Mine? Light on my belly, dark on my arms, medium on my legs…is it wrong to comment on this? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/43 "2009-07-22T20:01:00Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I…don’t really like having my color compared to obesity. Not that I really have a problem with obesity, but you know, I can’t change my color! > > I think it’s wrong that we can’t even comment on skin tone. I am downright envious of some black women - they have even skin tone, and it’s universally brown and it’s beautiful. Mine? Light on my belly, dark on my arms, medium on my legs…is it wrong to comment on this? You sound like my calico. Seriously, I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/44 "2009-07-22T20:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not the same thing, but… would you tell an overweight female friend “This dress is perfect for you, because it hides your big butt”? No sane person should do that, UNLESS he/she is absolutely certain that it wouldn’t hurt the friend’s feelings. I probably wouldn’t tell a friend that a dress is good because it hides her big butt, but I might tell her that it worked well with her figure. That’s not an issue of what you’re saying, but of how you’re saying it. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/45 "2009-07-22T20:55:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I…don’t really like having my color compared to obesity. Not that I really have a problem with obesity, but you know, I can’t change my color! > > I think it’s wrong that we can’t even comment on skin tone. I am downright envious of some black women - they have even skin tone, and it’s universally brown and it’s beautiful. Mine? Light on my belly, dark on my arms, medium on my legs…is it wrong to comment on this? Actually, that sounds really beautiful to me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/46 "2009-07-22T21:31:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Maybe it’s just harder to see a vein. Bingo, if the vein is raised, and you can feel it, no different, if it’s flat and your searching by color, a white backround is easier. I usually tell my patients it’s one of gods little practical jokes. I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that tattoo artists don’t hesitate to discuss skin color vs ink color. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/47 "2009-07-22T23:53:24Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You were positing your preference as reality when in fact its simply your taste in clothing. Being darker skinned doesnt automatically mean certain colors work better for them. > > I’ll admit that there are general fashion rules to that effect, and your relative probably jumped the gun too quickly though. I don’t see how pointing out that someone who is most likely a winter would look good in pastels is any more racist than a black person pointing out that a milk pale autumn like me should gravitate towards earthtones and avoid pastels and bright colors like yellow and orange. Colors _do_ look different against different skin tones. ---
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/48 "2009-07-23T03:22:21Z")
A female coworker is trying to find someone (a person who happens to be black) at work on another floor. She asks someone if she knows where this person is. The person she asked (also black) says “What does she look like.” My female coworker hems a bit (I could tell she was looking for descriptions other than ‘black’) started saying “hair this long, etc. etc” when the person she was asking interrupted her and said “white or black?”, very nonchalantly. I don’t think most black people are offended that people notice they are black. Most white people aren’t offended if you notice they are white. Some white people are so race conscious they try to insist they “can’t see color”, which is ridiculous of course. I think your friend is being technically a little racist by assuming that if you notice a black person’s skin color they will be embarassed by it. Is there something wrong with black skin? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/49 "2009-07-23T17:34:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You sound like my calico. Seriously, I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said in this thread. I do talk a lot. Aren’t they chatty? Smiling Bandit, thank you. 🙂 It’s appreciated. And yes, my doctor has a little harder time finding my veins, too. As I look at the inside of my arm, it being July, it is rather brown. I see the veins, I am not that dark, but they are like shadows under the skin. Darker, BROWN shadows. Good luck finding that! It must be ten times harder when you’re darker. I also tan in ten minutes or less, if the sun is right. That is also not wrong to mention. The Indian stand-up comic Russell Peters has a great skit on this, where his doorman comes up to tell him a friend came by to see him. Russell was expecting a specific, black, friend. Doorman: Uh, Russell, one of your friends came by. Russell: Cool, is he still here? DM: No, but he said he’d come by later. Russell: What’d he look like? DM: Uh, tall. Curly hair. Russell: Was he black? DM: I don’t know, I didn’t notice. Russell: What did he say his name was? DM: Leroy. Russell: So - was he black? DM: I don’t know, if you say so, man. Russell obviously says it much funnier - but it’s so true. Asian is another one - people have a hard time saying “Asian” and feel downright uncomfortable when I say something like, “Have you seen X? He’s a tall Chinese guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/50 "2009-07-23T19:26:32Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > As much as I’d like to continue this, I must wonder why you brought up a total non-sequiter. Moreover, while being obese (as opposed to ordinary overweightness) is not really a good thing any way you slice it, what’s wrong with saying my pal is darker than me? I didn’t get that your friend was offended - just some relative. Extremes of weight are bad in several ways. I wonder if **astorian** is implying that extremes of skin tone are bad. And I’ll just pile on to say your comment was not racist in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/51 "2009-07-24T11:33:35Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] […]I’d define racism as determining people’s merits and qualities based on racial appearance.[…] [/QUOTE] Who doesn’t do this though? Is it possible for a human brain to receive information about a person’s appearance (visually or linguistically) and not make some sort of further extrapolation? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687/52 "2009-07-24T11:59:04Z")
> [@Mojo\_Pin](#): > > Is it possible for a human brain to receive information about a person’s appearance (visually or linguistically) and not make some sort of further extrapolation? We all make judgments about other people based on what we see, yes. We don’t all decide that white people are smarter than black people, lazier than Asian people and more trustworthy than Hispanic people. I tried to write my definition to reflect that. Maybe it would have been easier to say “the merits and qualities of _groups of people_ based on their racial appearance.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-acknowledging-reality-racism/503687.md?page=2)