# So, is Dr. Ben Carson an idiot? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 30, 2013, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346 "2013-03-30T12:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/61 "2013-04-02T19:02:37Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Equality is a basic human right. Precisely. Carlos Slim has 73 billion dollars. Where the fuck is my god damned 73 billion dollars!??! It’s my godamned BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to have 73 fucking billion dollars! You\* fuckers! \*General you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/62 "2013-04-02T20:13:05Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > The legal definition of marriage is a “basic human right?” > > Utterly ridiculous. “Marriage is one of the “basic civil rights of man,” fundamental to our very existence and survival…” - Chief Justice Earl Warren, _Loving v. Viriginia_, 1967, in a unanimous opinion. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/63 "2013-04-02T20:17:38Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Precisely. > > Carlos Slim has 73 billion dollars. Where the fuck is my god damned 73 billion dollars!??! It’s my godamned BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to have 73 fucking billion dollars! You\* fuckers! > > \*General you. Har har har. And the right to freedom means we should throw the jails open, right? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/64 "2013-04-02T20:33:06Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Personally, I love how Republicans have gotten off the “No political experience? Black? He’s pushing to the head of the line and you folks are creaming in your jeans over this black messiah…” thing. Now being black and having no political experience is a good thing. You could replace “Republicans” with “Hillary Clinton supporters” and that sentence would be spot on. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/65 "2013-04-02T20:54:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > To say that “Marriage is a basic human right” is to say that every human should have the right to… what? To marry the person of their choice? But what if the person of my choice doesn’t want to marry me (or is otherwise unavailable)? To marry _someone_? Well, everybody already has that right, sorta. It might make sense to say that the right to marry is a right which belongs to _couples_ rather than to individuals, but that makes it a different sort of “right” than most human rights. Having babies is also a basic human right and you need someone else’s help with that, too. Hell, you could argue that speech requires someone to speak and someone to hear. Petition requires someone to ask and someone to be asked. Assembly requires more than one person. And Miller already quoted (one of the) the relevant quotes in the American context. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/66 "2013-04-02T20:56:12Z")
[Liberals don’t like me because they’re racist.](http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/ben-carson-jabs-racist-white-liberals-audio?ref=fpb) > [@](#): > > Carson, who is the head of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins University, said he represents an existential threat to liberals. “They need to shut me up, they need to get rid of me,” Carson said. “They can’t find anything else to delegitimize me, so they take my words, misrepresent them and try to make it seem that I’m a bigot.” > > “And you’re attacked also, in many respects, because of your race,” Levin said. “Because you’re not supposed to think like this and talk like this. A lot of white liberals just don’t like it, do they?” > > “Well, you know, they’re the most racist people there are,” Carson said. “Because, you know, they put you in a little category, a little box, you have to think this way. How could you dare come off the plantation?” ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/67 "2013-04-02T21:15:35Z")
It just gets better and better. I think I know what’s going on. The Republicans cheated a gypsy a while back and she put a curse on them. Now, calling someone “a rising star of the Republican Party” means they shall be cursed with an epic fail in short order. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/68 "2013-04-02T21:19:03Z")
I hadn’t heard of this guy before, but I think that he (and other smart, successful, accomplished religious fundie-types) should stand as a humbling example to all us enlightened liberals. Being ‘smart,’ logical, or educated does not inoculate one against wrong conclusions and beliefs. Instead of asking, “how can this smart guy believe something so obviously wrong,” we should be asking, “how many of my beliefs are based on my personal feelings about an issue, which I then convince myself must be factually true because of how much smarter and logical I am than the people who believe otherwise?” It might help us understand each other a bit more, and is certainly a more productive pathway than to just sit and stare agape at people who believe differently than us, wondering how they could possibly be so dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/69 "2013-04-03T11:04:59Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > [Liberals don’t like me because they’re racist.](http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/ben-carson-jabs-racist-white-liberals-audio?ref=fpb) Actually, being treated equally means you have just as much chance of having your idiocy pointed and laughed at as anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/70 "2013-04-03T12:11:53Z")
Actually, Dr. Carson is being logically consistent. As he said IF you define “marriage” as a union between a man and a woman, any other unions (woman-woman, man-man, man-?, etc.) are something else. If you define marriage as any union between any two parties, then “gay” marriage is marriage. I don’t see all the fuss-maybe the logic is too simple? ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/71 "2013-04-03T12:48:18Z")
Most certainly not an idiot in the field of neurology but in other areas, political ideology or religious zealotry has compelled him to ignore science. He is just another in a long line of distinguished scientists - Pauling, Hoyle, Shockley - who have taking a curious path, although that did so much earlier than the others is a bit distressing. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/72 "2013-04-03T13:58:29Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Actually, Dr. Carson is being logically consistent. As he said IF you define “marriage” as a union between a man and a woman, any other unions (woman-woman, man-man, man-?, etc.) are something else. If you define marriage as any union between any two parties, then “gay” marriage is marriage. > I don’t see all the fuss-maybe the logic is too simple? I actually used to have a problem with gay marriage. Because, I figured, if some group (let’s say, Christianity) wants to have their stupid club for jerks, then they should be able to have that. No one else should force their way in. But, after I had my ignorance on the topic fought, I understood that marriage isn’t a religious thing, it’s a legal thing, with all kinds of rights and obligations that are important to some people. Every consenting adult has an equal right to those perks, if any of us has a right. So, if Dr. Carson defines marriage as ‘between a man and a woman’ then the entire point of contention is that it is unfair not to broaden that definition to include man/man and woman/woman. He understands that. It’s not as if he is claiming to only want to use the \*\*word \*\*‘marriage’ in its original context. No, he is actually trying to keep the institution limited to the original definition, and in trying to defend that, he decided to use the kind of distasteful examples that he knew would put a bad taste in his audience’s mouths (Nambla, bestiality). I know many Christians who have their shit together, so I don’t really blame Christianity for his idiotic statements. Rather, I think he is using his Christianity as an excuse for his willful ignorance. Like other posters have pointed out, the man has really said some dumb shit that any thinking man can see is dumb. Not only the marriage stuff, but stuff like evolution, too. Maybe the skilled surgeon is actually an idiot savant. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/73 "2013-04-03T15:37:33Z")
I do wish that people like him would at least come out and be _honest_ and say what they really believe, which is: “I think gay people are evil and sinners, and I don’t want them to be happy like _we_ are”, rather than talking about the sanctity of marriage and such bullshit. Of course, the sad thing is that if they did say that there would be a goodly bunch of morons clutching their precious bibles right behind them. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/74 "2013-04-03T15:54:46Z")
Religions need to come up with their own word. Marriage is a secular term. Regardless of the genders of the spouses, we understand that a married couple are mated, not that they are following a particular religious doctrine. If a couple wants to say they are bound according to the covenants of their particular religion, they need a different term to signify that–like Holy Wedlocked. People who say that gays want to redefine marriage are wrong. The word “marriage” doesn’t mean only man and woman any more than “sandwich” means only bread and ham. We understand that marriage is the concept of two people bonding for life. Maybe all you need to be a neurosurgeon is the ability to memorize and recall. Have a delicate touch and just remember a bunch of “if this, do that”. So maybe he has very little ability for deductive reasoning and to think for himself. He is against gay marriage because he was told it was wrong, not that he came to that conclusion himself. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/75 "2013-04-03T16:09:28Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I understood that marriage isn’t a religious thing, it’s a legal thing > [@filmore](#): > > Religions need to come up with their own word. Marriage is a secular term. I think it would be most accurate to say that marriage is a **societal** thing. Whether it is, additionally, a religious term, or a legal term, or both, or neither, depends on the society. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/76 "2013-04-03T18:32:56Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Then why didn’t he pick groups of people who are not engaging in illegal, deviant behavior? Clearly he’s trying to imply that gays, like pedos and bestiality supporters, are a deviant group. And anyway, I haven’t heard that NAMBLA or people into bestiality are trying to change the definition of marriage. > > Notice the difference between these two examples: > > 1. Racially pure marriage is a pillar of society. No group, be them African-American, Hispanic, or Asian, is allowed to to change that. > > 2. Racially pure marriage is a pillar of society. No group, be them African-American, pedophiles, or necrophiliacs, is allowed to change that. > > They may both be bigoted statements, but in the first the comparison is appropriate. In the second, the implication is that they are all deviant groups. This is why he has apologized, but the thing is how many examples of people with non-typical sexual preferences who could possibly want to expand the definition of marriage can you name? I can think of polygamists, bestialists, pedophiles, and homosexuals. If there are other groups I would have no idea what they are called. So his examples are necessarily restricted to groups that some would call deviants. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/77 "2013-04-03T19:21:13Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is why he has apologized, but the thing is how many examples of people with non-typical sexual preferences who could possibly want to expand the definition of marriage can you name? I can think of polygamists, bestialists, pedophiles, and homosexuals. If there are other groups I would have no idea what they are called. So his examples are necessarily restricted to groups that some would call deviants. I want to “expand the definition of marriage” to cover same sex marriage. I’m a heterosexual woman married to a man. Why does he have to use “non-typical sexual preferences” at all when talking about people who want to expand the definition of marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/78 "2013-04-03T23:45:10Z")
I went to nursing school at Hopkins, and you would really have to be there to understand how he’s viewed. The man is _revered_. Spoken of in hushed tones, the whole deal. Add that to the fact that neurosurgeons tend to have colossal egos anyway, and I can see how it’s never occurred to him that he needs to apply critical thinking to any of his beliefs. I mean, he’s Ben Carson, for god’s sake. And on a personal note…I was walking out of the hospital via the underground parking exit after a late night clinical rotation. And there he was, standing by the guard desk, in his scrubs, all alone. Just…standing there. It was a little like just running across, I don’t know…the president, maybe? Being a bit star struck, I told him that I admired his work (and I do…the man really is amazingly brilliant…his work separating cranially joined conjoined twins is justly world famous). And he…spoke to me. For about 10 minutes he asked me, a nursing student, literally a no one, questions about my career aspirations. He was nice, approachable, and acted like he had respect for me. It’s obviously something I’ve never forgotten. To hear that he has these kind of hurtful views is really quite disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/79 "2013-04-04T06:07:32Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > He is lumping them into the category of people who might want to change the definition of marriage, not into the category of awful people. > If I say things that are yellow such as bananas, lemons, and schoolbuses, that doesn’t mean I can’t tell the difference between fruit and huge motor vehicles, it is that I think they share one characteristic. If you read what he said, he was talking about groups that may want to change the definition of marriage, he was not equating them morally. Yes, he was. You are just making a surface reading. The point of bringing them up is to try to equate them in the audience’s mind. This is basic rhetoric. There is just no reason to bring these subjects up in close proximity except to imply that they are related. Without assuming they are connected, he isn’t making an argument at all. Just like in your example, where you have said nothing about why you are informing us that these things are yellow. And, yes, you are right with your specific example, but none of those have a negative connotation. If you change one of the terms to be “piss”, then you are in fact saying something negative about the other two items. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346/80 "2013-04-04T08:34:48Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There are several tells for people who appear to be fairly intelligent, but are actually idiots. One of the tells is the abbreviation ‘Dr.’ in front of their name. 😛 > [@Cyros](#): > > I freely admit, I consider anyone who compares homosexuality with bestiality or pedophilia to be an idiot (at least in these matters). 😛 > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Evolution is not a “political issue”. > > Well, sometimes it is, but only to idiots. 🙂 😛 > [@Gyrate](#): > > Actually, being treated equally means you have just as much chance of having your idiocy pointed and laughed at as anyone else. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-dr-ben-carson-an-idiot/654346.md?page=5)