# So, is it to be genocide Dogface? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 31, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559 "2004-03-31T16:48:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/41 "2004-04-01T00:38:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Above all, you must never ever even for one instant entertain any notions about what the Iraqis (you know, the bad guys) are thinking or what might be motivating them. Try to keep up, fella. Oh, I do try, but it’s hard. To keep up, that is. Not my, er, unit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/42 "2004-04-01T02:10:17Z")
Kalhoun: > [@](#): > > A civilized people will put a governor on their emotions(…) So, this makes the Iraqis who murdered the civilian (note, civilian. If they were soldiers, well, that’s combat, not murder) contractors and then descecrated their bodies what? I do agree that calling for nukes is excessive (napalm is just as effective, and costs less per square foot of destruction 😉 ). But ahem…the whole ‘rage’ thing that came out of the Battle of the Black Sea in Somolia isn’t going to happen here. Unlike Clinton, I wouldn’t be supprised if Bush instead sent another heavy brigade to help the situation. Jarbabyj: > [@](#): > > Iraq is little in terms of size, MONEY, RESOURCES and OPTIONS. They had no choice but to ‘welcome’ the American troops killing civilians and toppling cities in their quest to get Saddam and of course…the WMD. I’d like a cite on American troops killing civilians as a tactical exercise to acheive the strategic aim of kicking out Saddam and his WMD’s. Until you provide one, please, don’t start waving the dead Iraqi baby until you wave all of his counterparts from the Saddam regime. Furthermore: > [@](#): > > IRAQ HAS NO NEED FOR US ANYMORE. THEY DON’T WANT US ANYMORE and that’s been made abundantly clear. Do we leave? Hell no. We take control of their newspapers and radio stations, censoring out anti-american sentiment, and Iraqis have started fighting back. Is totally at odds with what you said earlier in your post. So, seeing as Iraq is the size of Texas (with greater oil reserves, which the insurgents are still knocking out as quickly as Haliburton can get them running), has little in the way of money, few resources (except for the aformentioned oil) and few options, are you saying that the US should, because they want a quick fix (don’t forget, Germany and Japan took a helluva lot longer to fix than one year, and we poured over 1 trillion (adjusted for inflation) into each one) and no don’t want us in there, that we should leave Iraq a wreck? The reason we’re still there is we’re trying to fix what we just broke, make it better. Oh, and um…yea, the Iraqi insurgency predated the Iraqi Provisional Government and the new state run newspapers and radio and television. Finally: > [@](#): > > We need to leave Iraq. We did that to Afghanistan after helping them to acheive their goal of freedom from the Soviet Union. You do remember the foster child of that abandonment, right? You do remember the Taliban, which in many ways was WORSE than the USSR? Sailor: > [@](#): > > Well I do blame GWB but I never called him a “fuckwad”. But it that’s what you want to call him then ok, I blame the “fuckwad” who caused all this to happen, who ordered an unjustified attack on a foreign country which has cost thousands of lives, American and Iraqi. I blame the fuckwad in the White House. happy? Well, Saddam could have stepped down. Hell, if I remember correctly, even the French were offering him asylum as long as he left the country. So, Saddam sits in until the very end, trying to call America’s bluff, when Bush isn’t bluffing, and suddenly it’s the president’s fault? But, well, the real rub that I have with your comment was the ‘I blame the “fuckwad” who…an unjustified attac…coust thousands of lives…’ part. I invite you to think back to August of 1990. Who was the fuckwad who ordered an unjustified attack on a foreign country which cost thousands of lives, American and Iraqi (and just FYI, Amnesty International put the Kuwati deathtoll at over 100,000 in the '90-'91 war)? Call Bush a fuckwad all you want, just remember to leave enough paint on your brush to do Saddam too. Grey, Dude. You kick ass. El\_Kabong, > [@](#): > > Oh, I do try, but it’s hard. To keep up, that is. Not my, er, unit. With the mention of ‘unit,’ do you suppose that **Bob!** has a waxen face, huge feet, a shit-eating grin, and reciently ordered his trial pack of Enzyte? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/43 "2004-04-01T02:31:34Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > Well, Saddam could have stepped down. Hell, if I remember correctly, even the French were offering him asylum as long as he left the country. So, Saddam sits in until the very end, trying to call America’s bluff, when Bush isn’t bluffing, and suddenly it’s the president’s fault? _scratches head_ Huh? _finally figures it must be a joke_ Ha, ha. That’s a good one, **fushj00mang**. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/44 "2004-04-01T02:38:44Z")
It seems that Dogface has apologized in the thread that originally inspired this pitting. I have requested that a mod close this one, and to be honest kind of wish that I had resisted opening it in the first place. It seems as if there is enough out there to be outraged at without taking it out on each other. Hope to live and learn, I do. ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/45 "2004-04-01T02:51:16Z")
I have no comment on the peripheral debate going on in this thread. I just want to throw my hat in with the crowd that thinks **dogface** is an example of the worst kind of American militancy. He thinks violence is the fundamental currency in this world, but he and all like him are wrong. It’s love. People can be provoked into doing all manner of things by threat of force, but it doesn’t compare to what is capable of a person who is motivated by love. Be it love of god, country, thy fellow man, or whatever damned fool thing his heart has taken hold of. In short **Dogface** , go fuck yourself. Just kidding, I love you man. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/46 "2004-04-01T03:29:14Z")
This Year’s Model: Color me confused. So, you’re saying that it’s not Saddam’s own fault that the Coalition of the Willing, spearheaded by a hundred-thousand badass American fighting men, went in, kicked ass, took names (I was given a pack of 52 with pictures, and I know we haven’t stopped there,) freed the opressed, and are now attempting to bring true and lasting democracy, as well as economic prosperity, to a country whos people deserve it? Then who’s fault is it? See, I remember back in August of '02, and September '02, and October '02, and November '02, and December '02, and January '03, and Feburary '03, and the first week in March of '03, Bush saying for Saddam to come out with his hands up or we’re going in after him (and his WMD’s.) I remember Kenya, Tanzania, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Zimbaubwe (sorry, I know I murdered that spelling) and France all offering asylum to him. See, if Saddam hadn’t thrown out UN inspectors in the first place (and remember, Mr. Blix did find illegal weapons in there, just not chemical or biological ones,) and if Saddam hadn’t thrown out inspectors again, and if he hadn’t persued weapons from outside the country (also recall that Mr. Blix’s team found roughly eighty missiles, I forget the Iraqi designation, but they were cheap knockoffs of the North Korean ‘No Dong’ missile, who’s range exceeded UN imposed limits by, what, 3,000km? Not too much…) and then limited contact with the staffers who could have told the UN team “No, we don’t have them,” and if he hadn’t started destroying documents which would have said one way or the other, and if he had just fucking left the country as Kenya, Tanzania, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Zimbabwaaaaayyy, and France wanted…well, I can’t say we didn’t warn him. He should have just left. Woulda been easier, right? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/47 "2004-04-01T03:44:32Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > This Year’s Model: > > Color me confused. No shit, Sherlock. Rather than go into detail by breaking up your post with the brackets and “quote” and slashes, and interspersing “Cite?” throughout, I will simply say that based on the evidence provided before the invasion, and based on the occurrences since the invasion, we were wrong to invade Iraq. It’s really that simple. I’ve read your posts before; I know we don’t live in the same world. Since the OP has requested this thread be closed, I’ll no longer post in it. Perhaps we can pick this up elsewhere sometime. Oh, BTW, you almost got Zimbabwe. You didn’t need the “u”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/48 "2004-04-01T05:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > So, you’re saying that it’s not Saddam’s own fault that the Coalition of the Willing, spearheaded by a hundred-thousand badass American fighting men, went in, kicked ass, took names (I was given a pack of 52 with pictures, and I know we haven’t stopped there,) freed the opressed, and are now attempting to bring true and lasting democracy, as well as economic prosperity, to a country whos people deserve it? I would say that it’s not Saddam’s own fault that the U.S. & U.K. backed by 37 smaller countries who were bribed and coerced to demonstrate “support”, went in, kicked ass, changed the oppressors, and are now attempting to establish a puppet government by setting up a bogus ruling committee led by a convicted thief, as well as securing Iraqi oil for the U.S., to a country whose people deserve better. Now, since we have now occupied that country and destroyed its infrastructure, I do believe that we should make a serious effort to allow them to rebuild their country. However, I see no reason to blame Hussein for the imposition of a puppet government under Chalabi, the destruction of Iraqi border security that has permitted al Qaida to establish itself, for the first time, in the center of the country, or the reaction of various Iraqis who perceive our ham-handed and ill-considered “plans” to be as bad as the previous less chaotic and (so far) more authoritarian regime. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/49 "2004-04-01T05:38:45Z")
Well **Dogface** is gone, too bad he shot his mouth off. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559/50 "2004-04-01T06:39:05Z")
I’ve banned Dogface. Now I’m closing this thread. Lynn For the Straight Dope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-it-to-be-genocide-dogface/237559.md?page=2)