# So, is Rush the leader of the GOP? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157 "2009-03-03T16:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/101 "2009-03-05T21:50:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I don’t read Sullivan regularly, so I’ll take your word for his overall views. I do not appreciate the claim of disingenuousness. “You’re wrong,” would have been fairer and less inflammatory. No offense intended. I assumed you were cherry-picking his issues with Obama, since reading his blog with any scrutiny would’ve readily demonstrated how inaccurate your characterization was. > [@](#): > > IOW – the first thing he has done in office is to push through enormous, record-breaking spending packages, full of earmarks and pork, much of it going to things that the right and center are guaranteed to find unacceptable. It’s been pretty inarguably a boldly progressive program. That’s the policy. This should’ve come as no surprise to anyone who’s been paying attention since the campaign started (though “full of earmarks and pork” is both a relative view and a practical inevitability; you don’t do your argument a service by characterizing it as something shockingly new and out-of-place for Washington). Many mods & cons voted for him despite their suspicion that his economic philosophy wouldn’t dovetail with theirs; their confidence in him was for other reasons. > [@](#): > > The style has been the way they’ve used pretty strong rhetoric to sell their plans, suggesting that anyone who opposed the spending did not care about the economy. Again, this is a relative view (not to mention incredibly reductive of what they have said about their opponents) and, IMHO, still nowhere near as inflammatory or confrontational as we’ve come to expect from the last recalcitrant administration. And let’s be honest–these bits of back-and-forth only occurred after good faith efforts to cross the aisle and collaborate in a bipartisan fashion were largely rebuffed. It’s the height of hypocrisy that so many Republicans are acting like wilting violets now. > [@](#): > > It’s been attacking, by name, people like Santelli and Cramer. Oh, the fear-mongering media pundits who’ve been wrong over and over about the economy but still have the balls to assert some type of expertise in order to draw attention to themselves? [:snort:](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/03/about-last-nigh.html) > [@](#): > > And now it’s taking Limbaugh’s wish that _Obama_ fail and using it to claim that Limbaugh is “wishing and hoping for economic failure in this country.” > > Again, none of this is evil; Obama won the election, and of course he’s going to advance every bit of his agenda he can, any way he can. It’s just politics as usual. And this is where the unrealistic expectations on Obama get to take wing. Personally, I think there’s a difference between defending your position and demonizing your enemy. The best defense is a good offense, and Obama is holding people–like Limbaugh & Cramer & co.–accountable in a way they never have been before. He’s forcing the Republicans to make a choice about the very soul of their party, a schism they’ve being doing their best to try to whistle away. He’s refusing to act like a doormat when the Republicans think they can still posture like they have a majority when they are on the losing side of public opinion (both in polling and at the ballot). And it is extremely disin…uh, why don’t we say _ **convenient** _ to take these examples and somehow say they are analagous to what we’ve experienced for the last 8 years (which the “politics as usual” label implies). It’s like saying that Ali’s rope-a-dope are indistinguishable from Tyson biting the guy’s ear off. It may be politics, but Obama is a politician. Of course there will be jockeying and maneuvering, but it’s one thing to have that be an arrow in your quiver, which you need to use with savvy and discretion, and it’s another thing when it’s a kneejerk reaction to insure you get your way all the time, every time. But if you’re more comfortable wringing your hands about “politics as usual”, knock yourself out. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and the way politics operate won’t change that quickly either. There are plenty of reasons to see why Obama is dramatically different, both in tactics and in temperment (the fact that quite a few Dems are riled up is the most obvious one), but if you want to fixate on the supposed “similarities”, largely ignoring scale, context, and degree, there’s nothing I can do to stop you. And of course, there’s no evidence to suggest that you’re in anything but decidedly limited company right now. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/102 "2009-03-06T01:16:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Be fair about MSNBC as well as Fox, okay? Olbermann, and especially Matthews, have way too many lickspittle moments of their own. Wait a tick. Chris Matthews is some sort of radical lefty? Tweety Bird? Ah, well, OK, I guess. Don’t take it personal if I back away slowly… ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/103 "2009-03-06T01:36:22Z")
I wouldn’t say “radical.” He wrote speeches for Jimmy Carter. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/104 "2009-03-06T02:20:42Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Top of my head, I’m thinking : David Brooks, Christopher Buckley, Jim Cramer, Maureen Dowd, David Gergen, Andrew Sullivan. All supported Obama, all now upset at his economic policies. Hell, even Chris Matthews was ripping him for earmarks last night. Brooks and Dowd, as Times columnists, were not allowed to endorse anyone. I don’t know if Brooks even voted for him, but his columns, which are of the “don’t go too fast variety” are exactly what I’d expect from him. Dowd is of course going to criticize - that is what she does. Krugman criticized him from the other side. Big deal. I’m pretty sure Dowd voted for him, and would do it again in a minute. “What a great job the guy is doing” columns would be pretty boring, no? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/105 "2009-03-06T03:02:34Z")
Man, if this keeps up, Obama is in danger of losing the Dittohead vote in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/106 "2009-03-06T03:03:27Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Man, if this keeps up, Obama is in danger of losing the Dittohead vote in 2012. Damn! If only the whole country could somehow lose the Dittohead vote by then… ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/107 "2009-03-06T06:30:48Z")
Does anyone else find it patently _ridiculous_ in its pomposity that Rush challenged the President of the United States to a radioshow debate? Rush may not be a genuine leader of anything, but he’s definitely narcissistic enough to consider himself on the same playing field as world leaders. He may be right in some cases, though, since his listeners outnumber the populations of some small island nations 😉 Obama would be a laughing stock if he accepted an invitation to a debate like that. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/108 "2009-03-06T11:44:19Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > Does anyone else find it patently _ridiculous_ in its pomposity that Rush challenged the President of the United States to a radioshow debate? > > Rush may not be a genuine leader of anything, but he’s definitely narcissistic enough to consider himself on the same playing field as world leaders. He may be right in some cases, though, since his listeners outnumber the populations of some small island nations 😉 > > Obama would be a laughing stock if he accepted an invitation to a debate like that. That the way I see it. Limbaugh is beyond ridiculous. Also, I can’t agree with the “Obama was calling Rush out” crowd. Limbaugh has been publicly addressing Obama directly for a very long time, but I have never seen Obama address Limbaugh except that one time, indirectly, when he said people shouldn’t listen to naysayers like Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/109 "2009-03-06T15:26:08Z")
> [@David Brooks](#): > > ``` > Plus, I’m still convinced the administration is trying to do too much too fast and that the hasty planning and execution of these complex policies will lead to untold problems down the road. > > Nonetheless, the White House made a case that was sophisticated and fact-based. These people know how to lead a discussion and set a tone of friendly cooperation. I’m more optimistic that if Senate moderates can get their act together and come up with their own proactive plan, they can help shape a budget that allays their anxieties while meeting the president’s goals. > > ``` I guess the whole disapproval isn’t all that deep… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/110 "2009-03-06T15:34:18Z")
**’luci** allow me to be very clear. While there are, IMHO, some strident media voices on the Left, perhaps not as strident as Rush and company but strident nevertheless, I was referring not to them but to individual members of the public at large and of the blogosphere. Human nature is what it is **'luci** and if the Left excluded the less critical and perhaps dimmer bulbs from their ranks then they would have no chance of ever winning anything! By definition half of the populus is below average and I am sorry but they are not all Republicans. Some people function best when they have their effigy to burn and yeah the Left has their share of those people too. Very seriously one of Obama’s potential future problems may be sniping from those who feel he is not progressive or liberal enough. As a tactic of political theater he will do well to keep them occupied throwing their spitballs at the idiot Right. Not the only benefit of keeping Rush hanging around the GOP’s neck like the albatross he is, but not bad for political gravy. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/111 "2009-03-06T16:05:56Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > Rush may not be a genuine leader of anything, but he’s definitely narcissistic enough to consider himself on the same playing field as world leaders. He may be right in some cases, though, since his listeners outnumber the populations of some small island nations 😉 Hmmmmm. What would it take to convince him he should go to one of those islands? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/112 "2009-03-06T16:08:42Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > Does anyone else find it patently _ridiculous_ in its pomposity that Rush challenged the President of the United States to a radioshow debate? > > Rush may not be a genuine leader of anything, but he’s definitely narcissistic enough to consider himself on the same playing field as world leaders. I quite agree. The hubris is rather appalling. That he has so many fans who apparently are incapable of seeing through the blather is worse. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/113 "2009-03-06T16:09:29Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] 'luci allow me to be very clear. While there are, IMHO, some strident media voices on the Left, perhaps not as strident as Rush and company but strident nevertheless, I was referring not to them but to individual members of the public at large and of the blogosphere… [/QUOTE] And what of it? Aren’t you getting uncomfortably close to conflating commitment with fanaticism? Myself, I occupy a position on the conservative wing of the extreme left. No, Obama is not lefty enough for me, but he’ll do in consideration of the alternative. Such choices are the very crux of citizenship, the choice between Tweedledumb, Tweedledumber, and TweedleGodAwful. I don’t pretend that democracy is a more efficient form of government, only that it is the most just. And my duty as a citizen is to make difficult choices. I am, as you may know, the very embodiment of sweet Reason. And having examined the situation over, loathe, these many years, I’m hopping mad. Really pissed about it. Rightly so, in my estimation. (Well, duh!) Far too often I have dismissed some notion from the fringe as being too radical, too extreme, only to have it proven to be essentially correct. I have learned to be suspicious of knee-jerk _centrism_. The people who have been running the country are every bit as loathsome and vile as they are portrayed, exaggeration becomes impossible. We have less to fear from standing up for the wrong thing that we have to fear from failing to stand at all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/114 "2009-03-06T16:28:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait a tick. Chris Matthews is some sort of radical lefty? I said “lickspittle”. He does have his moments, you know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/115 "2009-03-06T16:29:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 🙂 I think you know who I meant. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/116 "2009-03-06T16:33:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I said “lickspittle”. He does have his moments, you know. I see beads of sweat forming on his brow as he looks over his shoulder and sees Ubermann and Smilin’ Rachel gaining on him. Yes, he has his moments, he must, since he’s all over the fucking map! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/117 "2009-03-06T16:39:12Z")
**’luci** , perhaps I was less clear that I believed I was. I’ll try one more time. Nothing unites people like a perceived common enemy. You, for example, will gladly go the battlements knife clenched in teeth to fight for Tweedledum if you feel that the attack is coming from TweedleGodAwful … but … what if there was no attack from TweedleGodAwful? Even Tweedledumber was fairly subdued? What would you do with your passion then? Sit quietly mumbling to yourself? Or would you perhaps start bitching about the things that you believe Tweedledum does dimly? Would perhaps start fighting against what you perceived as “knee-jerk centrism” instead? Obama is more centrist than extremist Left and more of a pragmatist than anything else. He is going to get his agenda done by virtue of the middle’s support and if he is going to get that support keeping the extremes neutralized is key. Get the Right to place themselves so far Right that they are out of the meaningful discussion with those in the middle, so far that the middle cannot identify with them or their ideas. Keep the Far Left busy defending the battlements from TweedleGodAwful. And the middle has become a bigger space for Team Obama to navigate in. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/118 "2009-03-06T22:46:20Z")
No. He’s a drug addict. Why can’t we get another scandal on this guy to shut him up? OTOH, hell, make him the GOP leader. We’ll be down to one party here in the US. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/119 "2009-03-09T22:08:52Z")
Some actual [data](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/republicans_see_their_party_as_leaderless)! > [@](#): > > Sixty-eight percent (68%) of Republican voters say their party has no clear leader, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Another 17% are undecided. > > Just five percent (5%) view either John McCain, the GOP’s unsuccessful 2008 presidential candidate, or new party chairman Michael Steele as the party’s leader. > > Two percent (2%) see conservative radio commentator Rush Limbaugh in that role, and one percent (1%) name McCain’s running mate, Alaska Govenror Sarah Palin. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader John Boehner are each seen as GOP leader by less than one-half of one percent. So indeed, the number one choice is no one by a landslide with undecided a distant second. Of individuals actually named McCain and Steele are tied for “leader”. _Then_, at 2%, you get to Rush and even less for Palin, McConnell, and Boehner. No one even names Cantor although he does seem to yield some power. There is indeed a leadership vacuum. Maybe that’s not surprising when you are out of power but it means that the image and message of the party is open to be defined: by self-appointed loudmouths like Rush; by candidates whose first hurdle is winning the next primary voted on by the party faithful and who can’t afford to get the loudmouth working against them; and by how others define you in the absence of you defining yourself. Rush is no leader but without any leadership that can stop him he is free to define the party as he sees fit and Obama is free to help him along. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157/120 "2009-03-09T22:28:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > _Then_, at 2%, you get to Rush… The actual poll data says that’s **4%** answered “Rush” when asked “Is the leader of the Republican Party Michael Steele, John McCain, Sarah Palin, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, someone else or is there no clear leader?” [http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public\_content/politics/pt\_survey\_toplines/march\_2009/toplines\_party\_leaders\_march\_6\_7\_2009](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/pt_survey_toplines/march_2009/toplines_party_leaders_march_6_7_2009) However, if you ask Republicans “Is Rush Limbaugh the leader of the Republican Party?”, fully **14** % will say yes. That’s the next question in the _same_ poll. Republicans are being very inscrutable these days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-rush-the-leader-of-the-gop/488157.md?page=7)