# So is the war in Afghanistan a good war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107 "2009-07-06T18:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/201 "2009-07-12T17:33:52Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > …And sorry about the snide remark upthread…alcohol has a way with a fella. No problem. Never happened. And this “alcohol” of which you speak? This is not the way of my people… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/202 "2009-07-12T19:10:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this “alcohol” of which you speak? This is not the way of my people… You can stick to your Thorazine, same as always. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/203 "2009-07-12T19:21:27Z")
Make the step up to Diprivan. it is so hot right now. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/204 "2009-07-12T19:46:25Z")
[http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=2350](http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=2350) This is a 5 part article explaining how the 96 Khobar Towers bombing was directed away from the Saudis and Osama by the Saudi government and CIA personnel who went along with it. They pushed for us to blame Iran. That helped Osama slip under the radar a while longer. The Saudis are not our friends. They are just business partners with the oil companies . They will both do all they can to preserve that money making consortium. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/205 "2009-07-12T21:00:08Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > ..Are we talking about Arabs in general, or Afghani’s? I must have missed someone saying either group were backward people needing to be whipped into shape, or that this was used as an excuse for power. **Smells** like a strawman to me… – bolding mine. Nasal decongestant located in aisle 4, product key [#184](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11330659&postcount=184) > [@FoiGras](#): > > \*I’ve often heard or read the (meme?) that “the only thing those people (Ayrabs) understand is force” > > Is there any truth to that or is that something people just say?\* Trust the new and improved formula, with the newly added racial epithet, _ **Ayrabs®** _, works as well as advertised. De nada. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/206 "2009-07-12T21:08:32Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > You can stick to your Thorazine, same as always. Running low. Have some of yours? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/207 "2009-07-12T21:46:55Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > – bolding mine. > > Nasal decongestant located in aisle 4, product key [#184](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11330659&postcount=184) > > Trust the new and improved formula, with the newly added racial epithet, _ **Ayrabs®** _, works as well as advertised. > > De nada. I wonder if it’s because I heard that a lot from my military buddies coming back from the Middle East. Maybe because the only thing my military buddies understand is the application of force. I just want to reiterate that I do not like, cherish or in any way want wars. I do believe though, that sometimes they become necessary. Iraq was not necessary, and neither was Vietnam. I think you can make a case for Afghanistan, but even those waters just seem to keep getting muddier. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/208 "2009-07-12T23:21:42Z")
And I believe you, **FGIE** , after all it’s your own that end up doing the killing and dying. I also agree that sometimes wars are indeed necessary. However, as you yourself observe, the case that occupies us here is indeed getting more and more complex (muddier). FWIW, as opposed to **'luc** (who, it most be noted, was a contrarian voice in the wilderness at the time), I too felt the original invasion was amply justified. I also felt some of the same outrage many of you did, living as I did at the time 45 minutes from Ground Zero (Stamford, CT) and losing a couple of neighbors that lived in my very complex. Other than donating blood I felt angry and helpless and wanted some revenge as well. But like it or not, that was a long time ago and I think a new perspective/strategy is needed for the status quo is clearly not helping. Quite the opposite really, thus my current arguments. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/209 "2009-07-12T23:32:25Z")
BTW, does anyone know where this new meme of (and I loosely paraphrase):“the hypocritical lefties are now full bore in favor of this war just because it’s not Bush that’s driving the Gov machinery”? I’ve seen at least three posts to that effect right here. Is it Faux News new chant? Because judging by what **Shodan’s** Usual Suspects are writing here and what I’ve read in my usual sources, it is yet another stinking pile. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/210 "2009-07-12T23:50:40Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > BTW, does anyone know where this new meme of (and I loosely paraphrase):“the hypocritical lefties are now full bore in favor of this war just because it’s not Bush that’s driving the Gov machinery”? I’ve seen at least three posts to that effect right here. > > Is it Faux News new chant? Because judging by what **Shodan’s** Usual Suspects are writing here and what I’ve read in my usual sources, it is yet another stinking pile. I’m not sure that it matters whom is at the helm, and why anyone would cry “hypocrite” at the Obama admin because they are actually strengthening their support of the one of the two wars that actually makes some semblance of sense. I would really like to sit and chat with General McChrystal. The guy has an interesting history, and by all terms, is a top-notch leader with tons of special operations experience, which is how the Afghan war has to be fought by and large due to the terrain. And thanks for the olive branch, **RedFury**. I am often guilty of blindly supporting the military because it was (and is) an inimitable part of my makeup as an American. I view our people in uniform as a noble group that do things many others cannot or will not do, by and large. I know that the military is also often guilty of abuses, and these are always in need of stamping out, whether it’s at the soldier level, or bad orders being issued by the higher-ups. I recall a recent conversation with my Dad, a retired major general, and we were arguing about the veracity of the Iraq conflict, and his summation was basically “Whether or not you agree with this war, you had better hope that it turns out well for us, otherwise, it’ll be your children going over there the next time.” I never agreed with that stance, but maybe it is true. If we are going to inexorably intertwine our foreign policy with the Middle East, there will always be resistance to that. I don’t want my little sons to grow up and go fight in a conflict far from home that has an ill-defined purpose, only to meet their deaths and wonder in their last gasp why it had to happen. Fuck, I’m rambling. The beer. Tell **elucidator** to come over and relieve me of my alcohol supply before I insult that dirty hippie again… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/211 "2009-07-12T23:52:36Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > BTW, does anyone know where this new meme of (and I loosely paraphrase):“the hypocritical lefties are now full bore in favor of this war just because it’s not Bush that’s driving the Gov machinery”? I’ve seen at least three posts to that effect right here. > > Is it Faux News new chant? Because judging by what **Shodan’s** Usual Suspects are writing here and what I’ve read in my usual sources, it is yet another stinking pile. Of course it’s a stinking pile. It’s the standard attempt at false equivalency… “liberals are just as hypocritical and lying as we are” means the same thing as “we’re no worse than anyone else.” The charge is easily dismissed by a few minutes’ perusal of Daily Kos, TPM, Digby (Hullaballoo) or any number of left leaning blogs. Doesn’t matter if they can get that meme into the public consciousness, though. But there’s a lot more traditional sources calling bullshit now than there used to be. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/212 "2009-07-13T00:03:33Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > …The beer. Tell **elucidator** to come over and relieve me of my alcohol supply before I insult that dirty hippie again… > > 🙂 Beer? Well, if stern duty demands… ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/213 "2009-07-13T00:13:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Beer? Well, if stern duty demands… Nati Ice, **elucidator**. 5.9% alcohol. But hey, it’s union made, so at least that should appeal to you while you choke down the nastiest brew… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/214 "2009-07-13T00:25:25Z")
Damn straight! Been boycotting Coors for forty years now. Not a drop, not once. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/215 "2009-07-13T00:41:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Damn straight! Been boycotting Coors for forty years now. Not a drop, not once. I have about 70 beers in the house (a week’s supply) cold right now. You can have them if you can drink them all in one sitting and survive. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/216 "2009-07-13T00:51:18Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I have about 70 beers in the house (a week’s supply) cold right now. You can have them if you can drink them all in one sitting and survive. The local market had a special on blackberries… $1.25. No risk of death either. Not bad! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/217 "2009-07-13T01:30:13Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The local market had a special on blackberries… $1.25. No risk of death either. Not bad! Funny, that. I just bought a shitload of blackberries at $1.50 per (pint?) and we have been ravenously consuming them. No risk of death, either, other than continuing to breathe. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107/218 "2009-07-13T18:34:13Z")
No worries **FG**. As I said, although I can’t compare my feelings with yours for obvious reasons I do have more than a passing level of empathy with many of the things you’ve expressed. Just hoping that things work out for the best for all involved – in as much as that is possible at this point in time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-the-war-in-afghanistan-a-good-war/502107.md?page=10)