# So is this Bloombergs plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 1, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332 "2020-02-01T15:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/61 "2020-02-03T16:59:50Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I often consider myself cynical but … Wow! Thank God I’m not _that_ cynical. Do you assume that _all_ politicians are motivated primarily by their own selfish interests? Or just billionaire candidates? > > The actual cost to Bloomberg of his campaign is much MUCH greater than his expected loss to a wealth tax … since the probability of passing such a tax is very low. (And as I explained in another thread, it’s under a _moderate_ President that progressive programs are most likely to pass Congress!) > > Nitpick: Given Warren’s proposal (“two cents”), Bloomberg would pay $1.2 billion. In my dialect that’s not “several billions.” > > @ OP - When Bloomberg tried to ban large soft drinks, is that because he cleverly shorted Coca Cola shares? I suppose he’s also shorted Smith & Wesson since he’s hoping for gun control. > **[A Calculator For The Billionaires | Elizabeth Warren](https://elizabethwarren.com/calculator/ultra-millionaire-tax)** > > Some billionaires seem confused about how much they would pay under Elizabeth’s Ultra-Millionaire Tax. So we’ve created a calculator to do the math for them. > [@](#): > > You’d [Michael Bloomberg] pay $3.163 billion next year under Elizabeth’s wealth tax. This amount, which you likely won’t even feel, will help us invest in education from birth through college and help finance health care for everyone. Keep in mind Sander’s tax is even higher, so Bloomberg would pay 3 billion in the first year alone. So him spending a billion dollars on politics is a pretty good investment, it is 1/3 of what he would pay in one year with a wealth tax. Also taxes are passed via budget reconciliation, which only require 50 senators and a democratic president. Granted, even if it doesn’t pass in 2021, the momentum can built to pass it in 2025 or 2027. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/62 "2020-02-03T17:23:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > You talking about Warren? Heh. Nice snark, and I’m not saying Warren’s Republican past shouldn’t be held against her _at all,_ but she switched parties, like, 20-some years ago and never ran for office as a Republican. Bloomberg IIRC ran on a Republican ticket as recently as 2011. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/63 "2020-02-03T18:40:40Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > [A Calculator For The Billionaires | Elizabeth Warren](https://elizabethwarren.com/calculator/ultra-millionaire-tax) OK. I think Warren and Wikipedia agree that Bloomberg has $61 billion. I see > [@](#): > > One of the most frequently cited proposals, Senator Elizabeth Warren’s “Ultra-Millionaire Tax,” calls for a 2% annual tax on households with a net worth between $50 million and $1 billion and a 3% annual tax on households with a net worth over $1 billion. She shortens this to “two cents” in the debates. But even at “three cents” for billionaires, Bloomberg’s tax should be “only” $1.8 billion. Where does the $3 billion come from? Did she raise her rates recently? But whether $2 billion or $3, you didn’t answer my questions. Do you think all politicians are motivated by personal greeds? Or just billionaires? Do you think Bloomberg has a short interest in Smith & Wesson stock? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/64 "2020-02-03T18:53:27Z")
I mean Bloomberg isn’t a political neophyte, I suspect he has very little fear of either Sanders or Warren actually getting a wealth tax passed. For one the odds of a Dem Senate are quite low, the odds of all the moderate Dems disappearing from Congress and being replaced by Democratic Socialists is nil. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/65 "2020-02-03T19:22:07Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Even if they get it passed after spending a ton of political capital, what’s the chance of it surviving the current SCOTUS? We had a thread on this and it would be difficult for ANY SCOTUS to rule it Constitutional as it is a direct tax and thus must be apportioned to the states by population. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/66 "2020-02-03T19:27:45Z")
The problem is that the Warren camp has fallen for their own bullshit. No, the billionaires aren’t running scared of Warren’s many plans. If they want to thwart them, there’s a million easier ways than running for president. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/67 "2020-02-03T20:31:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > OK. I think Warren and Wikipedia agree that Bloomberg has $61 billion. I see > > > [@](#): > > > > One of the most frequently cited proposals, Senator Elizabeth Warren’s “Ultra-Millionaire Tax,” calls for a 2% annual tax on households with a net worth between $50 million and $1 billion and a 3% annual tax on households with a net worth over $1 billion. > > She shortens this to “two cents” in the debates. It’s now up to 6% on billionaires. > [@](#): > > [The Ultra-Millionaire Tax taxes the wealth of the richest Americans. It applies only to households with a net worth of $50 million or more—roughly the wealthiest 75,000 households, or the top 0.1%. Households would pay an annual 2% tax on every dollar of net worth above $50 million and a 6% tax on every dollar of net worth above $1 billion](https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/ultra-millionaire-tax). FWIW, I am willing to believe that Bloomberg wants to raise his own taxes because he thinks it is a good idea, whether he favors a wealth tax or not. One of those quizzes about who I should support came up with Bloomberg and Yang as my first two among Democrats. UBI is a non-workable idea, and Bloomberg’s record as mayor shows he can work as well as can be expected with diverse interests. He has financial experience, to say the least, and he seems to be the only Democrat - heck, the only candidate - that even mentions the deficit. If he gets the nom, I would consider voting for him in a way that I would not if it was Bernie Sanders. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/68 "2020-02-03T22:51:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The problem is that the Warren camp has fallen for their own bullshit. No, the billionaires aren’t running scared of Warren’s many plans. If they want to thwart them, there’s a million easier ways than running for president. Whether it’s Warren or Sanders supporters or others, the idea Bloomberg would run for president because of a tax proposal is being presented as an unfalsiable claim. ‘Here’s what Bloomberg would owe, it’s a lot of money, case closed, that’s why he’s running’. I find it highly implausible, but obviously some people are going to stick to calculating how much he’d owe and challenging anyone to prove that isn’t why he’s running. Other more plausible explanations don’t directly prove that personal tax reasons _aren’t_ why he’s running Such as to review, -personal ambition to be president, genuine belief the ‘nation needs him’ (these two are intertwined in essentially every presidential run IMO, just make it ‘him, her, etc’), -the relative unlikelihood of such a proposal becoming law under President Sanders or Warren -or IOW IMO it’s mainly symbolic or a marker for the future, latter pointing to how preventing it in 2021-2025 term doesn’t mean you’ve defeated it permanently anyway. -defeating it for now could involve all kind of easier and more practical efforts than running for president (such as not contributing to Democrats in key Senate races, lobbying after the election, etc). You know, the kind stuff some very wealthy Democrats are probably actually _going_ to do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/69 "2020-02-03T23:35:36Z")
Its impossible to know Bloomberg’s motives, we can only speculate. However Bloomberg trying to create a brokered convention so he can play a meaningful role in selecting the nominee would give him a lot of influence in the party. Arguably far more than running and dropping out like Booker or Harris have done. If Bloomberg siphons enough delegates to lead to a brokered convention, then offers millions if not billions in financial incentives he will have a gigantic influential role within the democratic party. And Bloomberg recently spoke out in favor of tax hikes for the rich, but didn’t include a wealth tax in his proposals. These seem to be taxes on estates and income, all of which I’m fine with raising the tax rates on. [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/01/michael-bloomberg-tax-plan-110105](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/01/michael-bloomberg-tax-plan-110105) > [@](#): > > The former New York City mayor also wants to raise taxes on capital gains, hike the corporate tax rate, stiffen the estate tax and repeal a new break for “pass-through” businesses, whose owners pay individual rather than corporate taxes on their earnings. > > The proposals do not go as far as some of the other candidates’ plans. > > Bloomberg is eschewing, for example, the idea of a wealth tax embraced by Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, which would dun an array of assets besides income, like artwork and second homes. And he wouldn’t be as zealous as some in raising corporate taxes. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/70 "2020-02-04T00:50:24Z")
Lol, you sure are trying hard to be a conspiracy theorist. People run all the time because their ego tells them they’re the best or they’ve got some issues to push. Both those reasons are easy to attribute to Bloomberg’s run. But nope, the rich jew has a plot to take over the party through sneaky bribery. Yes, that’s more plausible. Thanks, Wesley. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/71 "2020-02-04T04:21:29Z")
> **[Democrats Are Freaking Out About Mike Bloomberg](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/mike-bloomberg-democratic-contested-convention/605956/)** > > "The answer to one Republican New York billionaire is surely not going to be a slightly richer Republican New York billionaire,” one Biden ally said. “It's laughable we even have to say that out loud." > [@](#): > > Over at Mike Bloomberg’s campaign headquarters, aides are just as excited about the Sanders surge. This was a hope. Now it’s their plan. If the next few weeks lead to the collapse of other leading campaigns—most crucially, Joe Biden’s, which is running short on money but occupying a similar ideological space as Bloomberg—and a Sanders-inspired freak-out, they believe the former New York City mayor will be the party’s nominee. Like many Democrats who aren’t supporting Sanders, they see a primary process that is setting up the party for a likely defeat. > > “If Sanders soars through the first four primaries and Biden and [Pete Buttigieg] stumble, Mike may end up as the only thing standing between Bernie and the nomination.” That’s how Bradley Tusk, who managed Bloomberg’s 2009 mayoral campaign and is advising the presidential run, put it to me on Thursday. Sanders might run away with it, but “a large portion of the party believes that Bernie can’t beat Trump—and that beating Trump is all that matters.” > > And so the prospect of a contested convention—in which the Democrats don’t have a presumptive nominee by the time they gather in Milwaukee in mid-July—is more likely than ever. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/72 "2020-02-04T05:37:19Z")
Do you present this as evidence that Bloomberg’s aim is a brokered convention where he intends to bribe the delegates? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/73 "2020-02-04T12:19:18Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Its impossible to know Bloomberg’s motives, we can only speculate. True enough. We can speculate with plausibility. Or we can speculate like a conspiracy theorist. Are you one of those who calls billionaires evil? > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If Bloomberg siphons enough delegates to lead to a brokered convention, then offers millions if not billions in financial incentives he will have a gigantic influential role within the democratic party. “Billions in financial incentives”? Which billions are those? It sounds like he’s taking a loss even if the wealth tax that-won’t happen … happens. (BTW, did we ever figure out why Warren thinks “three cents” of $61 billion is over $3 billion?) > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > And Bloomberg recently spoke out in favor of tax hikes for the rich, … taxes on estates and income, all of which I’m fine with raising the tax rates on. How does this fit your conspiracy theory? He’s got a Bloomberg-only loophole up his sleeve? > [@CarnalK](#): > > Lol, you sure are trying hard to be a conspiracy theorist. > … But nope, the rich jew has a plot to take over the party through sneaky bribery. Yes, that’s more plausible. Thanks, Wesley. Thank you. (I’m surprised yours gets no Warning, but I won’t report it! 🙂 ) I may root for a brokered convention. But I may request that my brokers choose … _ **Amy Klobuchar!** _ (Young, moderate, female, Midwestern. What’s not to like?) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/74 "2020-02-04T14:03:39Z")
Yeah, unleash that raw Minnesota energy and charisma! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/75 "2020-02-04T15:04:42Z")
Eh, I’m pretty sure his plan is just to be the moderate backup plan for when Biden falls flat on his face. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/76 "2020-02-04T22:58:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Thank you. (I’m surprised yours gets no Warning, but I won’t report it! 🙂 ) If you guys have to resort to name calling and accusing people of being anti-semites then you aren’t winning the argument. Bloomberg has a track record of using personal funds to build coalitions in his political agenda. > **[The Real Power of Bloomberg’s Money](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/01/bloombergs-bankrolling-wasnt-just-about-campaigns/604390/)** > > It’s not what he spends to get into office that’s so transformative—it’s what he spends once he gets there. > [@](#): > > Bloomberg spent extensively as mayor of New York. He gave massive sums to nonprofit organizations and arts groups. He contributed enormous amounts in political donations out of his personal bank account. (Most politicians make political donations out of their campaign accounts or PACs.) He funded nonprofit organizations that boosted his policy agenda. When church groups or community organizations threatened to get noisy in opposition to him or his programs, he wrote checks that tended to quiet them down. (Top Democrats were known to tease black ministers who got only $25,000 for their churches, when peers who’d held out longer received $50,000—the deal was that these ministers didn’t have to support him, but if they wanted the checks to keep coming, they needed to stay neutral.) His company, Bloomberg LP, made many corporate contributions that lined up with his political interests. The money kept coming and coming and coming and coming. It broke logjams, and overcame institutional resistance. His money allowed him to drown out the opposition—and often made potential rivals hold their tongue. The timely and balanced budgets Bloomberg touted each year in PowerPoint presentations were enabled in part by spending cuts to groups that were then made whole again by the most transparent of anonymous donations. The money he spent led to fewer protests, and deals that were easier to make. But yes, I’m an anti-semite conspiracy theorist and you are all rational actors who resort to name calling to win debates. If you honestly think that making deals behind the scenes to build coalitions in politics is a conspiracy theory, then I don’t know what to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/77 "2020-02-05T00:52:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If you guys have to resort to name calling and accusing people of being anti-semites then you aren’t winning the argument. > > Bloomberg has a track record of using personal funds to build coalitions in his political agenda. > > … > But yes, I’m an anti-semite conspiracy theorist and you are all rational actors who resort to name calling to win debates. > > If you honestly think that making deals behind the scenes to build coalitions in politics is a conspiracy theory, then I don’t know what to tell you. What?!? I never thought you were anti-Semitic. You present examples of Bloomberg altruism — who called this “conspiracy theory”? I do NOT support rule by the wealthy, but still find it almost magnificent that Bloomberg used his wealth single-handedly to improve such a great city. I am NOT saying that’s the way politics should trend BUT your own examples imply Bloomberg is unselfish. Did he spend money and power to further his political goals? Sure! The greatest American politicians spent their power this way … and didn’t have sufficient wealth to make a dent as Bloomberg can. Yet after all this evidence of Bloomberg spending his own personal wealth in causes he thought or thinks further the interests of New York and the country, _ **you want us to believe that he’s suddenly reversed course 180 degrees** _, and is now running for the main purpose of avoiding the wealth tax. This from a billionaire who supports higher taxes on the rich. :smack: 😕 To quote a Star Trek character: “This does not compute.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/78 "2020-02-05T01:07:31Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If you guys have to resort to name calling and accusing people of being anti-semites then you aren’t winning the argument. You are accusing him of planning to bribe people once he throws a monkey wrench into the primaries. Do you have any theories about any other Dem candidates’ secret criminal plans? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/79 "2020-02-05T01:26:22Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You are accusing him of planning to bribe people once he throws a monkey wrench into the primaries. Do you have any theories about any other Dem candidates’ secret criminal plans? I posted an article about his campaign advisers saying his plan is a contested primary and an article showing he has a history of offering financial incentives to create allies and quiet dissidents. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332/80 "2020-02-05T02:29:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I posted an article about his campaign advisers saying his plan is a contested primary […] Not really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-bloombergs-plan/847332.md?page=5)