# So...is this Obama guy doing a good job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103 "2010-08-13T00:17:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/21 "2010-08-13T15:02:49Z")
He veers between being a moderate (healthcare, financial reform etc.) and extreme right wing (civil liberties, rule of law) Republican. He made no attempt to try and get a public option and pushed for and got a healthcare plan that was originally a GOP idea, Obamacare being the plan moderate Republicans produced in 1993 as their competing plan for Hillarycare. The eventual Obamacare bill was actually written by a former Wellpoint chief top executive who is now working as a healthcare lobbyist. Financial reform, ha. Basically no change at all. What little regulation that was introduced is full of loopholes. In a few months you’re going to see articles pointing out that it’s business as usual on Wall Street and reform has made no difference. Even if Elizabeth Warren does get appointed to run the Consumer Protection Agency the bankers will find a way to do and end run round it. And Obama basically continued the Bush bailout of the banks and not the financial system while giving the finger to main street, didn’t push for a decent-sized stimulus, etc. Civil liberties. Even more extreme than Bush. Has grabbed and claimed more authority for the prez than even Bush did. He’s ramped up the war in Afghanistan because he’s terrified of being called a weak liberal, but in giving in to the threat of being called names by the war lobby he’s confirmed that he is, indeed, a weak leader. He’s caved before the GOP in congress and the Senate. Imagine the following scenario – if the Democrats had spent eight years screwing up the economy to the extent that they turned a budget surplus into a trillion dollars plus a year deficit, caused the biggest financial meltdown for seventy years and landed the trillions cost of it with the taxpayer, and started two unwinnable wars, one on bs “evidence” that was basically to enrich a key Democratic Party group of financial backers. The when they got kicked out of power they spent the next couple of years trying to block everything the new GOP leader did to deal with the multiple disasters they’d created, blocked all his nominess of top government posts and blamed the incoming guy for the deficits and the mess they’d created. If that scenario had happened the GOP would be raising holy hell, they’d all be on the teeveee screaming about the Democrats’ continuing fuckupdness, they’d repeat the same narrative day after day until everybody in the country knew who to blame for the current state of affairs, they’d turn public opinion fully behind them. Has Obama done this? No, he’s tried to deal with people who are clearly out to fuck his presidency up. He deserves to lose the next two elections because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/22 "2010-08-13T15:13:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > > > Not his fault. Senate hasn’t passed the defense appropriation bill yet. Democrats trying to schedule floor vote in September, but Republicans threatening to block it unless DADT and abortion ban repeal are removed. > > Unless there was no defense appropriations bill last year - and I am sure there was one - that’s a questionable excuse. There was one, and there was an amendment to repeal DADT last year, but the House leadership wouldn’t let it come to a vote and it died in committee. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/23 "2010-08-13T16:24:39Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Also, “illegal” is not a noun. Yes it is. And you know exactly what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/24 "2010-08-13T16:45:02Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Obama’s great at demagoguing. He says what stupid people like to hear and then fails to do it. Gee, he often says what I like to hear. How shall I take your comment? > [@](#): > > Still wish we had McCain. At least we have moved in the right direction under Obama. There’s absolutely no doubt we’d be sinking fast if McCain had been elected. Yikes! Not to mention Vice President Palin. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/25 "2010-08-13T16:51:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Widespread use of unmanned drones is a point of concern that hardly anybody seems to worry about at this point. What is the concern with drones? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/26 "2010-08-13T16:56:13Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > Widespread use of unmanned drones is a point of concern that hardly anybody seems to worry about at this point. > > What is the concern with drones? [del]They’ll develop sentience and take over the wor[/del] They’re basically remote controlled assassination except with less precision. There’s no attempt made to arrest terrorism suspects, they’re just summarily executed. And then there’s what happens when they blow up the wrong house. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/27 "2010-08-13T17:04:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@CaveMike](#): > > > > What is the concern with drones? > > [del]They’ll develop sentience and take over the wor[/del] They’re basically remote controlled assassination except with less precision. There’s no attempt made to arrest terrorism suspects, they’re just summarily executed. And then there’s what happens when they blow up the wrong house. Thanks. I wasn’t sure if you meant how they are employed or if you meant that there was some technical flaw that made them inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/28 "2010-08-13T17:07:19Z")
Obama hasn’t done a very bad job like Bush, and done some good things. Still, it seems like he is just a caretaker. But then what can you do when you take over a sinking ship? ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/29 "2010-08-13T18:18:23Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Obama’s great at demagoguing. He says what stupid people like to hear and then fails to do it. Cash-for-Clunkers was a textbook example of window-breaking, yet no one called him on it. Stimulus money was incredibly mismanaged, going to plug budget gaps in municipalities and funding already-funded projects instead of going to where it would create jobs. The stimulus funds that have gone to states and municipalities have prevented wide-spread layoffs or reductions in services. Saving jobs from being cut isn’t going to positively affect the existing unemployment rate, but it’s hardly mismanagement. > [@](#): > > As for the military, he hasn’t changed a damn thing. We were already transferring power to the Iraqi government when he came into office and he just continued down that path. Then he ramps up the Afghan war, which is an entirely different political mess, and uses some half-ass Iraq strategies. So now, no ground is being gained but more soldiers are dying. Ground has been gained (the Marja offensive, the upcoming Kandahar operation), but ground is not what is crucial in Afghanistan. Simply maintaining the pre-2009 strategy and level of forces there was the worst of all worlds, with either a phased withdrawal or an escalation being the politically and militarily safer options. Being a politician, Obama decided on doing both. > [@](#): > > Socially, there’s been 0 progress made. We’re on year 2 and _still_ illegal immigration hasn’t been fixed. We’ve still got illegals pouring over the border at record rates and he hasn’t even mentioned it. Then when Arizona finally mans up and says “If you won’t enforce current law, we will.” And what’s he do? He sues Arizona! It’s the LAW, Mr. Executive. EXECUTE IT. The president does not execute state laws. Particularly when those laws usurp federal authority and risk all 50 states from implementing 50 different variations of their own immigration law. Current federal immigration law is being enforced, however, due to the immense size of the US-Mexico border and the relatively few number of US border patrol/ICE agents, there is insufficient manpower to fully monitor and patrol all areas of the border. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/30 "2010-08-13T19:06:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] At least we have moved in the right direction under Obama. There’s absolutely no doubt we’d be sinking fast if McCain had been elected. Yikes! Not to mention Vice President Palin. [/QUOTE] On the bright side: McCain, still alive… 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/31 "2010-08-13T19:58:19Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > The president does not execute state laws. Particularly when those laws usurp federal authority and risk all 50 states from implementing 50 different variations of their own immigration law. Current federal immigration law is being enforced, however, due to the immense size of the US-Mexico border and the relatively few number of US border patrol/ICE agents, there is insufficient manpower to fully monitor and patrol all areas of the border. When did I say he executes state laws? I’m demanding that he execute federal laws, which he is failing to do. The fact that there is insufficient manpower and relatively few ICE agents is exactly the kind of failure I’m talking about. So then a state comes along and copied the federal law, essentially giving the federal government the use of state resources, and what’s he do? He sues to stop it. There is no “usurping” of federal authority here. Arizona isn’t making up new laws or contradicting federal law. They’re just defining and executing a process for people found in violation of federal law. Saying they can’t do that is like saying the local cops can’t arrest me for a federal offense. It’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/32 "2010-08-13T20:05:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > [QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] > At least we have moved in the right direction under Obama. There’s absolutely no doubt we’d be sinking fast if McCain had been elected. Yikes! Not to mention Vice President Palin. On the bright side: McCain, still alive… 😛 -XT [/QUOTE] Good point, but who could say for sure what the stress of office might do to the old guy? Plus, that Palin sure has proven to be pretty cunning and devious. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/33 "2010-08-13T20:15:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > [@xtisme](#): > > > > On the bright side: McCain, still alive… > > > > 😛 > > > > -XT > > Good point, but who could say for sure what the stress of office might do to the old guy? Plus, that Palin sure has proven to be pretty cunning and devious. Somehow, I get the feeling that if McCain had become president and passed away, we’d have President Palin for about three weeks, and then she’d resign with some bullshit excuse about the media being too haaaarrrrd on her family. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/34 "2010-08-13T20:50:25Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > When did I say he executes state laws? I’m demanding that he execute federal laws, which he is failing to do. The fact that there is insufficient manpower and relatively few ICE agents is exactly the kind of failure I’m talking about. So then a state comes along and copied the federal law, essentially giving the federal government the use of state resources, and what’s he do? He sues to stop it. There is no “usurping” of federal authority here. Arizona isn’t making up new laws or contradicting federal law. They’re just defining and executing a process for people found in violation of federal law. Saying they can’t do that is like saying the local cops can’t arrest me for a federal offense. It’s silly. Well he just signed a bill today adding 1000 new BP agents and granting a great deal more money and other resources to that area. Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/35 "2010-08-13T21:38:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > He has left NASA a bit directionless. > > What you see as leaving directionless, I see as removing fetters. The purpose of Bush’s Moon-Mars initiative wasn’t to get us to the Moon or Mars; if that were the purpose, the initiative would have come with enough funding to make that possible. The purpose was just to cripple NASA from doing anything else, so they wouldn’t join the evil liberal climate change conspiracy. NASA can figure out what to do on its own, without a politician telling them. It’s actually been worse than that. NASA as an organization hasn’t had a clear mandate since the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. Every successive administration, Republican or Democrat, has either essentially ignored the primary purpose of NASA–to develop and mature aerospace and spacecraft technology in order to provide reliable access to space–and has either let the organization waffle with poorly conceived obligations (like the STS/Shuttle program, ISS) or used NASA as merely a means to grandstand on unfunded, unrealistic mandates, like manned Mars missions. That some NASA centers have performed exceptional, groundbreaking exploration and development (specifically JPL) has been despite, rather than because of, political support. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/36 "2010-08-13T21:45:53Z")
Although the OP has gone out of their way to slur Conservatives, I will give my analysis of Obama. **Economy** The economy is in a really tough situation, and I now believe a double-dip recession is imminent, and possibly worse. I think Obama is doing about the best that he can in this situation, with the exception that he should have pushed for much, much fewer mortgage bailouts. The housing bubble and the idiots who thought they could buy a $500,000 house on $50,000 salary with no money down needed some tough lessons. I give Obama a “B”, but I’ll be damned if I know anyone who could get an “A”. **The Deficit** It’s mostly the Congress’ fault. Obama shares some blame, and I wish he would take leadership of a mandate for a balanced budget. I give him a “C”. **Energy and the Environment** Contrary to the fears of 99% of my co-workers and clients, he has moved with a slow and reasonable pace on the environment, too slow IMO. In terms of Energy he’s left things drift quite a bit. Part of the problem is the Energy bill trapped in the Congress, but he’s not doing very much at all to move things forward. Really, this is going to be a black mark on his record. I give him a “D” overall. **Health Care** The bill which was passed was largely Congress’ fault. I give him a “B+/A-” in that he accomplished something he strove for over tremendous opposition. He showed effective leadership. **BP Spill** Speaking as an Engineer who knows Engineers in high places, there was not really much better that Obama could have done. He gets an “A”. **Military** Seems like I recall some promises to end these money-wasting debt-increasing atrocities during the last campaign. Haven’t seen much happen at all. However, the reality of how the wars have been conducted seem to be decent overall. I give him an “A”. **Foreign Relations** Well, his rabid fans and SDMB cult of personality members would have you believe he’s a God Abroad, but throwing aside their ignorance he actually is doing an excellent job. I am concerned about getting in too close to Russia and how Russia’s goals towards the FSR may end up getting an implicit Obama approval. Nonetheless, I still give him a “B+/A-”. **Political Rancor** Remember Clinton? What we have here is nothing. I give him an “A” **Illegal Immigration** This must be stopped, people need to be deported, and there must be no amnesty, ever. Otherwise, I expect a check written to me and signed by Obama for the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent obeying immigration laws and following the rules. He gets a “D-” **Gay Rights** He’s moving but with a glacial pace, and I don’t mean glaciers calving off of Greenland pace either. Some LGBT folks do understand that just because you don’t actively hate us, it doesn’t mean you’re our friend. But perhaps it’s unfair to compare his pandering to LGBT folks during the election, with how he’s actually moved things forward in-house. So I’ll give him a “C-” **Presidential Standing** He has held the office of the President with Honor, thus far. His main gaffe was getting involved in the whole “beer summit” debacle. I give him an “A-/A” **Overall Score** I didn’t vote for him, but he was the best choice between him and McCain. I therefore as a Conservative give him a B+/A- ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/37 "2010-08-13T22:47:35Z")
The sad fact is you Americans have great expectations of who you elect for a president without realizing it is your congressmen and senators that makes all the final decisions on social policy. I think Obama is good as you are ever gonna get, but your constitutional restraints on the influence and power of the presidency has shown me particularly over the past year that the office of the presidency has even much less power than the speaker of the house or the majority leader of the senate. I’ll venture to say that our prime minister of Canada in a minority government has more power than the president of the United States, but less power than a singular contrary senator over any particular contentious issue. I had great expectations for Obama. I blame my disappointment on your constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/38 "2010-08-14T00:27:27Z")
The US system of government is terrible. But all the others are much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/39 "2010-08-14T01:25:34Z")
His stock just went up in my opinion: [Obama backs mosque near ground zero](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama) > [@](#): > > “As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country,” Obama said, weighing in for the first time on a controversy that has riven New York City and the nation. > > “That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances,” he said. “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable.” ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103/40 "2010-08-14T03:37:02Z")
I actually think backing the Mosque was a stock going down decision. What he says is true but that is not what the American people are going to see. They are going to see a “Muslim President allowing a mosque on the site where Muslims killed Americans”. Facts do not go hand in hand with Politics. It’s almost suicidal if you ask me. I’m calling one term president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-obama-guy-doing-a-good-job/550103.md?page=3)