# So is this what we can expect if leftists are allowed into Republican events? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368 "2005-04-02T05:13:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/122 "2005-04-14T02:41:30Z")
Speaking as an expert, I don’t see any overt signs of Cognitive Dissonance in Matt Drudge, though its hard to make a clear diagnosis without a thirty second videotape and the opinion of a television psychic. One should not mistake CD for common douchebagitude. Which doesn’t lead at all to my question for **Mac** being “What the heck do ‘you mean by you guess its ok because Drudge is gay.’ Your insinuation is too abstract for me to be sure just who exactly you are inviting us to sneer at.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/123 "2005-04-14T02:51:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m pretty sure Drudge is gay according to Drudge. Apparently he’s using the Clinton defense to deny it. He goes to gay bars but he doesn’t swallow. If someone catches him in the act will he post it on his web site? Things that make a liberal go hmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/124 "2005-04-14T05:49:47Z")
I hear that Jeff Gannon is willing to testify that Drudge is not gay. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/125 "2005-04-14T05:51:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Apparently he’s using the Clinton defense to deny it. He goes to gay bars but he doesn’t swallow. “Just as one swallow does not a summer make, so one swallow does not a homosexual make.” – Xaviera Hollander 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/126 "2005-04-14T12:57:03Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > I don’t know about anti-globalization, but I do recall right-wingers destroying a building in Oklahoma City a few years ago. Yeah, and I recall a left-wing administration gassing and incinerating a church and its congregation in Waco, Texas. Here’s an interesting factoid for ya. More children were killed by the Clinton administration in Waco, than were killed by McVeigh & Co. in Oklahoma City. > [@Zoe](#): > > Abortion clinic bombings are worse that pie-throwing. As are the bombings of laboratories that utilize animal research and testing. Or how about “spiking” trees, to cause destruction to equipment and injury to loggers? That’s pretty despicaple too, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/127 "2005-04-14T13:03:18Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Yeah, and I recall a left-wing administration gassing and incinerating a church and its congregation in Waco, Texas. Not to pick a nit or anything, or to say that what happened was justified, but aren’t you oversimplifying just a tad here? Maybe a bit hyper on the ole hyperbole? Are you honestly saying that the Branch Davidians = the church down the street? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/128 "2005-04-14T13:17:42Z")
**Razorsharp** , you’re right. Great point! You showed us. Always a pleasure when you stop by. Be seeing you! What were the rest of you saying? Oh, yes! **magiver** asked for examples of a Republican politician calling a Democrat a traitor. My google skills are apparently not up to snuff this morning, but I’m pretty sure I remember this happening in early 2003; does anyone else want to demonstrate their mad leet googlefu? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/129 "2005-04-14T14:00:09Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Not to pick a nit or anything, or to say that what happened was justified, but aren’t you oversimplifying just a tad here? Maybe a bit hyper on the ole hyperbole? Not at all. My so-called hyperbole was, in fact, a fair and measured response to **spectrum** ’s association of the political right with McVeigh & Co. > [@](#): > > Are you honestly saying that the Branch Davidians = the church down the street? Not exactly, but I do equate the the rights of the members of the Branch Davidians with the rights of the members of the church down the street. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/130 "2005-04-21T20:23:57Z")
I believe Mr Moto stated that the “left” demonstrates worse behavior than the “right” at political functions. Okay, maybe so. (It’s hard to do a quantitative statistical analysis of such things). Here’s something that’s much easier to calculate. How many _“pro-life”_ activists have actually killed abortion clinic doctors and workers ? How many _“pro-choice”_ activists have killed “pro-life” workers, protestors, etc? I think Mr Moto would agree that the vast majority of bad behavior _in this particular issue_ is practiced by the “right”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/131 "2005-04-21T23:21:22Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Or how about “spiking” trees, to cause destruction to equipment and injury to loggers? That’s pretty despicaple too, huh? When was the last time that actually happened? I don’t live out West, so I don’t keep current on such things, but I can’t recall a single news report of tree-spiking since the early '90s. [http://www.darrylcherney.com/hippieslyrics.htm#spike](http://www.darrylcherney.com/hippieslyrics.htm#spike) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/132 "2005-04-22T00:27:39Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > I believe Mr Moto stated that the “left” demonstrates worse behavior than the “right” at political functions. Okay, maybe so. (It’s hard to do a quantitative statistical analysis of such things). > > Here’s something that’s much easier to calculate. > How many _“pro-life”_ activists have actually killed abortion clinic doctors and workers ? > How many _“pro-choice”_ activists have killed “pro-life” workers, protestors, etc? > > I think Mr Moto would agree that the vast majority of bad behavior _in this particular issue_ is practiced by the “right”. And I’ve said as much. So what? I could find tons of issues where the bad behavior is centered on the left, because that’s where the more hotheaded passion lies. Limit things this way, and you can make your self-selected data say whatever you like. In any case, I think we should all happily note that [clinic violence is sharply down](http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm) both in the number of incidents and in their severity. I don’t think anyone here would be unhappy with that development. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/133 "2005-04-22T01:43:22Z")
**Mr Moto** You and I have debated on other topics before and I think you are fair-minded. I just wanted to state that sometimes the right wing factions of a particular cause can be totally out of control too. Of course I realize I was narrowing my point of view (the reason for my use of italics in that posting). I was just offering an opinion from my “left-leaning” point of view. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/134 "2005-04-22T02:54:27Z")
First of all, what’s worse, a T-shirt specifically calling for the death of a single republican politician, or a T-shirt [claiming that the world would be a better place without any liberals?](http://www.thoseshirts.com/tshirts.html) This gets back to a basic difference in tone I see between angry rude leftists and angry rude rightists (and there are plenty of both). Angry rude leftists tend to (at least in the current political climate) attack specific public figures. Bush is attacked a LOT. Maybe (maybe) even more than he deserves. Angry rude rightists, on the other hand, attack the entire left. Ann Coulter claims that all liberals are traitors. TRAITORS!!! How many dirtier insults are there? I can’t f\*\*\*ing believe that people can laugh off my outrage about that. But I digress. The worst that I tend to see directed from leftists to rank and file right wingers is that they’re dumb and led around by the nose. And, let’s face it, that’s pretty much what everyone thinks about everyone who disagrees with them. Yes, I think most of the people who voted for Bush are either dumb or uninformed. I admit it. Heck, I think the vast majority of the people in the world are dumb and uninformed, and given that I personally strongly oppose Bush, of COURSE I think that people who support him are frequently dumb or uninformed. But what I do NOT think is that the **Bricker** ’s and **Mr Moto** ’s of the world are malicious, evil, mentally ill or traitorous. Oh, and for the record, did **Wonderwench** really just make the following argument: “There are small numbers of liberals who throw food at their rivals. Liberals are worse than conservatives, because conservatives don’t throw food at their rivals. What? There are small numbers of conservatives who take out death contracts on their rivals? Well, they’re not representative of conservatives as a whole…” Because if she did, man, that’s a new low. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/135 "2005-04-22T09:33:37Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > … because that’s where the more hotheaded passion lies… Quite right. When our leaders send our children off to kill and die for a false and ignoble cause, the correct response should be restrained and polite, a calm and decorous “Tut, tut, tsk, tsk!”. Its only massacre and horror for a lie, after all. Nothing to get all worked up over. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/136 "2005-04-22T13:27:08Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Yeah, and I recall a left-wing administration gassing and incinerating a church and its congregation in Waco, Texas. > > Here’s an interesting factoid for ya. > > More children were killed by the Clinton administration in Waco, than were killed by McVeigh & Co. in Oklahoma City. I’d like to see your proof that the Federal law enforcement agents, rather than Koresh, burned down the Branch Davidian compound. > [@](#): > > Or how about “spiking” trees, to cause destruction to equipment and injury to loggers? That’s pretty despicaple too, huh? It is. And even the Earth First! types disowned that tactic long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/137 "2005-04-22T13:49:53Z")
Would it be all right to toss a pie at one of the fake secret service agents patrolling the president’s events, or would that be considered too disrespectful? [Secret Service opens criminal investigation into removal of three from Bush event](http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=69da8fc7-0abe-421a-019f-afcc3223805d&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf) > [@](#): > > The second investigation by the Secret Service seeks to determine whether a man dressed in a dark suit and wearing an earpiece criminally impersonated a Secret Service agent when he escorted the three Denver residents out of the March 21 event, attorney Dan Recht said. Surely _some_ timely response to this sort of shenanagins is warranted? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/138 "2005-04-22T13:50:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It is. And even the Earth First! types disowned that tactic long ago. Indeed they did (although a few folks separated themselves from the EF!ers over this issue). However, if you read something like _Ecodefense_, probably the definitive guide to committing pro-environmental crimes, even the folks who spiked trees took multiple overlapping efforts to avoid having the spikes cause damage to humans: -Trees were spiked above the level at which the trees would be chainsawed. -Companies would be informed by anonymous letter that a particular stand of trees had been spiked, before logging began. -Large companies purchasing public timber were overwhelmingly targeted, with the trees on public lands being spiked. -If the warnings were ignored, then the worst-case scenario is that a mill’s sawblade would be ruined by a spike, necessitating a costly shutdown for the mill and a costly replacement blade. Modern mills have safety screens and other measures to protect workers from sawblades hitting metal–even without treespiking, this is an occasional event, as old trees often have embedded barbed wire, nails from where prospectors set up a tentline, and so forth. In the one case in which a person was injured by a tree-spike (horrifically injured, mind you), it was in a small timber mill that was family-owned and that lacked certain required safety equipment. There had been no notification of the spiking. And there’s some evidence to suggest that the spikes were placed in the early part of last century by Wobblies, radical unionists who were active in the logging industry and who invented the tactic of tree-spiking. Certainly you can make the case that leftists are far more prone to commit property-damage crimes than rightists–I can’t, off the top of my head, think of analogous property-damage crimes from the right. However, this is not a case that you can point at as leftists committing violent crimes against people. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/139 "2005-04-22T15:14:42Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > This gets back to a basic difference in tone I see between angry rude leftists and angry rude rightists (and there are plenty of both). Angry rude leftists tend to (at least in the current political climate) attack specific public figures. Within the “vast right-wing conspiracy”. > [@](#): > > Ann Coulter claims that all liberals are traitors. TRAITORS!!! How many dirtier insults are there? Uh… how about “Nazi”? That’s a liberal favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/140 "2005-04-22T15:25:36Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Uh… how about “Nazi”? That’s a liberal favorite. Indeed, and it is to the right’s credit that no conservatives use that as an insult–by, for example, referring to abortion as a Holocaust, or by using terms like feminazis. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368/141 "2005-04-22T15:35:06Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’d like to see your proof that the Federal law enforcement agents, rather than Koresh, burned down the Branch Davidian compound. Well, being that the power had been cut-off from the compound and the residents were using kerosene lanterns, I’d say that knocking in the walls of the building and pumping in a combustible chemical agent has the potential to start a fire. Okay, now you “prove” that the Davidians immolated themselves. > [@](#): > > It is. And even the Earth First! types disowned that tactic long ago. You say that as though conservatives approve of using murder as a legitimate tactic in opposing abortion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-is-this-what-we-can-expect-if-leftists-are-allowed-into-republican-events/297368.md?page=8)