# So, ISIS now has MIGs **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426 "2014-08-25T03:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/21 "2014-08-25T17:46:28Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > How many combat flight instructors did they capture? Can you trigger only the student’s ejection seat, from the instructor’s controls? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/22 "2014-08-25T18:38:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The captured aircraft (assuming there were any) are MiG-21s, not 29s. But still pretty useless as flying bombs. Oh, even better. In the unlikely event that they did seize them, they are now the proud owners of the shittiest combat jets this side of a Wile E. Coyote cartoon. Fishbeds are death traps, and utterly useless without a good deal of support since their onboard radar is about as all-seeing as a one-eyed bat. And they’re supposed to be dogfighters, so their ground assault capability (y’know, the whole point of having air to begin with) is unimpressive to say the least. That being said, they’re also somewhat ubiquitous in that part of the world, so the problem of finding pilots and nut-tighteners is lessened. [QUOTE=md2000] Can you trigger only the student’s ejection seat, from the instructor’s controls? [/QUOTE] MiG-21s are single seaters (although there exists a couple training models with two). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/23 "2014-08-25T18:45:14Z")
Great idea, the pilot could fly inverted 50 feet off the deck and eject his ISIS student from the rear seat. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/24 "2014-08-25T19:30:11Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > MiG 21 - isn’t that about 1970? > In Vietnam, as soon as the US introduced the F-4 Phantom (first production supersonic fighter), the race was on … I don’t think this is correct. Both the F-86 and F-100 pre-date the Phantom and were both supersonic. My Dad flew them. But anyway, ISIS has about as much use for MiGs as they do a brand-new set of golf clubs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/25 "2014-08-25T19:49:39Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > But anyway, ISIS has about as much use for MiGs as they do a brand-new set of golf clubs. Less. They can use golf clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/26 "2014-08-25T20:01:50Z")
A twitter photo (sorry, couldn’t get the exact link, but it’s here) of happy Arabs in front of a jet. [mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/tabaqa](http://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/tabaqa) Anyone here can verify by sight? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/27 "2014-08-25T20:25:07Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > A twitter photo (sorry, couldn’t get the exact link, but it’s here) of happy Arabs in front of a jet. > > [x.com](http://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/tabaqa) > > Anyone here can verify by sight? That’s a MiG-21 all right. But of course, no way to know if (or reason to believe that) it’s operational - if they had more, they’d line 'em up on the tarmac. If they only have the one, then it’s there because the Syrians couldn’t fly it away. That being said, the Twitter caption is confusing. They supposedly got (Russian) MiGs AND (American) AIM-9 Sidewinders ? Do these even work together ? I know the missile the Russians designed for the MiG-21 was a copy/paste job in many respects but… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/28 "2014-08-25T20:35:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kobal2] That being said, the Twitter caption is confusing. They supposedly got (Russian) MiGs AND (American) AIM-9 Sidewinders ? Do these even work together ? I know the missile the Russians designed for the MiG-21 was a copy/paste job in many respects but… [/QUOTE] IIRC, the K13 looks pretty much the same as the AIM-9 (which isn’t really a big surprise since the Russians stole the design). Didn’t check the Twitter link, but my guess is the person was just confused. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/29 "2014-08-25T21:08:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s a MiG-21 all right. > > But of course, no way to know if (or reason to believe that) it’s operational - if they had more, they’d line 'em up on the tarmac. If they only have the one, then it’s there because the Syrians couldn’t fly it away. Quite likely a “hangar queen”, a plane cannibalized for parts to repair other planes. There’s always a few parts in such short supply that they don’t have enough to keep all the planes in the unit operational. So they sacrifice one plane to keep the rest going. It may look like a good plane from the outside, but there’ll be several important pieces missing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/30 "2014-08-25T22:19:52Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s a MiG-21 all right. > > But of course, no way to know if (or reason to believe that) it’s operational - if they had more, they’d line 'em up on the tarmac. If they only have the one, then it’s there because the Syrians couldn’t fly it away. > > That being said, the Twitter caption is confusing. They supposedly got (Russian) MiGs AND (American) AIM-9 Sidewinders ? Do these even work together ? I know the missile the Russians designed for the MiG-21 was a copy/paste job in many respects but… They work. Sidewinders, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/31 "2014-08-25T23:22:12Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Quite likely a “hangar queen”, a plane cannibalized for parts to repair other planes. There’s always a few parts in such short supply that they don’t have enough to keep all the planes in the unit operational. So they sacrifice one plane to keep the rest going. It may look like a good plane from the outside, but there’ll be several important pieces missing. Yeah, that’d be my guess as well. The vertical stabilizer looks weird to me, like it’s burnt or crumpled or cracked ? Maybe it’s just a trick of the light, or some sort of fabric/camo net/greasy rag somebody threw up there. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/32 "2014-08-28T03:45:03Z")
ISIS released some photos. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/33 "2014-08-28T07:59:34Z")
Okay, so they have _two_ MiGs, one of which being the one with the weird tail (looks like the weirdness was just paint trails after all. Or possibly militant Islamic semen, it’s [del]hard[/del]difficult to tell) As for the missiles, as I expected earlier they’re not AIM-9s but look like AA-2s. That, or very _old_ Sidewinders, the kind that still aimed at the Sun more often than not. But from Cs onwards, the forward fins of the Sidewinder never were angled that way. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/34 "2014-08-28T10:41:40Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Okay, so they have _two_ MiGs, Actually it looks like three planes are in that photo. It sure looks like there’s one in both hangars as well as the one outside. Probably all are not flyable due to lack of parts. Considering all that Iraq has gone through since Gulf War I, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if half the planes in that squadron were grounded for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/35 "2014-08-28T11:22:04Z")
I assumed that the one parked outside was one and the same with the one in the hangar from the earlier Twitter photo (and presumably one of the two in the hangar shot) and they pushed it out for a better light, because of that paint on the vertical stab. In any event, even a full flight of MiG 21s packed to the gills with short range IR missiles… won’t get them very far, not exactly. I guess it’s better than nothing to strafe defenceless Kurd villages with though 😕 I wonder how much avgas they’ve got for them, too. Jets get thirsty quick. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/36 "2014-08-28T13:29:47Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Actually it looks like three planes are in that photo. It sure looks like there’s one in both hangars as well as the one outside. Probably all are not flyable due to lack of parts. Considering all that Iraq has gone through since Gulf War I, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if half the planes in that squadron were grounded for that reason. It’s Syria, not Iraq. The Iraqi Air Force has shiny new F-16s, though it still has a small wing of Su-17s (a smallish bomber that entered service about the same time as the MiG-21.) ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/37 "2014-08-28T14:54:30Z")
ISIS has an air Force now. not bad for the JV team ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/38 "2014-08-28T16:19:35Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > ISIS has an air Force now. As above, it’s pretty unlikely. Not that they couldn’t have an old Ba’athist pilot or three. But much in the way of jet fuel\* or working planes? Probably not. - I believe the principal source of domestic jet fuel in Syria at least is in government hands at Baniyas in Alawite country. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/39 "2014-08-28T17:23:52Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > " to encourage airmen demoralized by crash accidents," > > As Voltaire said in Candide; "Dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres – “In this country, it is wise to kill an admiral from time to time to encourage the others.” Written about Admiral Byng, I believe. Whom the British executed for failing to defend Mahon, and unfortunately for him the last Admiral executed by his own country. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426/40 "2014-08-28T18:42:31Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > ISIS has an air Force now. > > not bad for the JV team That Syria is down an airbase and the means to fly in supplies or support their ground forces is probably of more significance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-isis-now-has-migs/696426.md?page=3)