# So it seems the claim that the Oscars are snubbing black people is false **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611 "2016-01-19T19:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/1 "2016-01-19T19:59:20Z")
Thank you, **EyebrowsofDoom** for providing us with some fact: > [@](#): > > [30](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19017765&postcount=30) > > Best Actor: > 2001 Denzel Washington (winner) > 2001 Will Smith > 2004 Jamie Foxx (winner) > 2004 Don Cheadle > 2005 Terrence Howard > 2006 Forest Whitaker (winner) > 2006 Will Smith > 2009 Morgan Freeman > 2012 Denzel Washington > 2012 Chiwetel Ejiofor > > Best Actress: > 2001 Halle Berry (winner) > 2009 Gabourey Sidibe > 2011 Viola Davis > 2012 Quvenzhané Wallis > > Supporting Actor: > 2003 Djimon Hounsou > 2004 Morgan Freeman (winner) > 2004 Jamie Foxx > 2006 Djimon Hounsou > 2006 Eddie Murphy > 2013 Barkhad Abdi > > Supporting Actress: > 2002 Queen Latifah > 2004 Sophie Okonedo > 2006 Jennifer Hudson (winner) > 2007 Ruby Dee > 2008 Viola Davis > 2008 Taraji P. Henson > 2009 Mo’Nique (winner) > 2011 Octavia Spencer (winner) > 2013 Lupita Nyong’o (winner) > > Which is 9.67% (29 out of 300) > > [32](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19017779&postcount=32) > (Too late to edit my typo) \*Chiwetel Ejiofor in 2013, not 2012. That is 29 nominations And 9 wins What a bizarre claim to say that black people are being snubbed by the Academy Awards! PS: I agree that the roles for black people, African American centered movies may be limited, but take that up with the studios, not, the academy. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/2 "2016-01-19T20:13:36Z")
I haven’t done the research but merely citing where some black actors at some point have won the award doesn’t mean to say that black actors (or Asians, no one ever gives a shit about Asians) aren’t being snubbed. That is to say, I’d need a lot more stats. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/3 "2016-01-19T20:14:28Z")
That there have been some black nominees and winners doesn’t necessarily mean that some deserving black performers and directors are not snubbed due to bias in the Academy. Considering the movies and nominees from the last two years, I think it’s more likely that there is some bias in voting that hurt potential black nominees than that there were no black performers or directors that were as good as the actual nominees. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/4 "2016-01-19T20:23:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I haven’t done the research but merely citing where some black actors at some point have won the award doesn’t mean to say that black actors (or Asians, no one ever gives a shit about Asians) aren’t being snubbed. > > That is to say, I’d need a lot more stats. What more stats do you need??? 29 nominations 9 wins > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That there have been some black nominees and winners doesn’t necessarily mean that some deserving black performers and directors are not snubbed due to bias in the Academy. Considering the movies and nominees from the last two years, I think it’s more likely that there is some bias in voting that hurt potential black nominees than that there were no black performers or directors that were as good as the actual nominees. Well, the: 29 nominations 9 wins would indicate to me that there is no bias 3 nominations 1 win would indicate bias ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/5 "2016-01-19T20:27:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That there have been some black nominees and winners doesn’t necessarily mean that some deserving black performers and directors are not snubbed due to bias in the Academy. Considering the movies and nominees from the last two years, I think it’s more likely that there is some bias in voting that hurt potential black nominees than that there were no black performers or directors that were as good as the actual nominees. It’s just so hard to objectively gauge which actors were snubbed, since the whole process is to large degree subjective. I’d stick with the numbers, and the analysis by the OP, if correct, shows there is pretty close to parity with demographic percentages. At least for blacks. A tad on the low side, but still close. Hispanics? Not so much… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/6 "2016-01-19T20:35:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s just so hard to objectively gauge which actors were snubbed, since the whole process is to large degree subjective. I’d stick with the numbers, and the analysis by the OP, if correct, shows there is pretty close to parity with demographic percentages. At least for blacks. A tad on the low side, but still close. > > Hispanics? Not so much… Yes, it’s very hard to objectively gauge this. It’s possible that, for some reason, these last two years have been anomalously biased, or even just anomalous due to chance. But based on the nominees and movies I’ve seen, I’m not at all convinced that none of the black performers and directors (and I’ll note that I haven’t seen any stats on directing awards) over the last two years were as good as the actual nominees. I think it’s possible that some bias was involved, at least for the last year or two. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/7 "2016-01-19T20:38:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, it’s very hard to objectively gauge this. It’s possible that, for some reason, these last two years have been anomalously biased, or even just anomalous due to chance. But based on the nominees and movies I’ve seen, I’m not at all convinced that none of the black performers and directors (and I’ll note that I haven’t seen any stats on directing awards) over the last two years were as good as the actual nominees. I think it’s possible that some bias was involved, at least for the last year or two. really? look how long it took Socrcesse to get an Oscar. Decades. And you are going to claim that there is bias against black people because of the past - 2 - years? In the past 15 years: 29 nominations 9 wins no bias ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/8 "2016-01-19T20:45:07Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > really? > > look how long it took Socrcesse to get an Oscar. Decades. And you are going to claim that there is bias against black people because of the past - 2 - years? > > In the past 15 years: > > 29 nominations > 9 wins > > no bias Got it. Your mind is made up. That you are certain is not convincing to me; I think there is still the possibility that there is some bias at play (and again, I’ll note that no statistics for directing awards was offered). ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/9 "2016-01-19T20:50:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > and again, I’ll note that no statistics for directing awards was offered). Why the hell don’t you do it? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/10 "2016-01-19T20:54:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Got it. Your mind is made up. That you are certain is not convincing to me; Yes, I can be stubborn at times, and biased, and contrary just because I don’t like a topic… but if you search your memory banks (or my posting history) you will find that I am normally - very - intolerant of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. > [@](#): > > I think there is still the possibility that there is some bias at play (and again, I’ll note that no statistics for directing awards was offered). How many top level black directors are there? Spike Lee\* - Serious movies Antoine Fuqua - Not very serious movies, action movies usually - 2 nominations Are studios bias towards black directors? Maybe ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/11 "2016-01-19T20:58:09Z")
It’s Asians and to a lesser degree, Hispanics, who are grossly underrepresented in terms of on-camera roles and awards. Black Americans get slightly more roles than their percentage of the population, and slightly fewer awards. John Singleton isn’t worried. [John Singleton on Oscar Diversity: Not Worried on Lack of Black Nods - Variety](http://variety.com/2016/film/news/john-singleton-oscar-diversity-reaction-1201682288/) Disproportional representation between different groups is the rule, rather than the exception for extremely competitive opportunities. Just because Jews are underrepresented in NASCAR, that doesn’t automatically mean that NASCAR discriminates against Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/12 "2016-01-19T20:59:36Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > It’s Asians and to a lesser degree, Hispanics, who are grossly underrepresented in terms of on-camera roles and awards. Black Americans get slightly more roles than their percentage of the population, and slightly fewer awards. > > John Singleton isn’t worried. > > [John Singleton on Oscar Diversity: Not Worried on Lack of Black Nods](http://variety.com/2016/film/news/john-singleton-oscar-diversity-reaction-1201682288/) > > Disproportional representation between different groups is the rule, rather than the exception for extremely competitive opportunities. Just because Jews are underrepresented in NASCAR, that doesn’t automatically mean that NASCAR discriminates against Jews. yes, that is true bit again… is it the fault of the Oscars or the fault of the studios? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/13 "2016-01-19T20:59:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Got it. Your mind is made up. That you are certain is not convincing to me; I think there is still the possibility that there is some bias at play (and again, I’ll note that no statistics for directing awards was offered). That you “think” there might be a “possiblity” is probably not convincing many people the other way either. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/14 "2016-01-19T21:02:44Z")
I agree this is mostly an issue with the studios not creating good parts for black actors, rather than the Academy itself being racist (though that certainly adds to the problem – a majority old, white academy isn’t optimal). But you can’t just point at the last 15 years and say “what problem?”. Two years in a row, there are _zero_ black actors nominated. That’s a problem. That’s a new problem. Sort of like you can’t look at climate data from 1 AD to 1900 AD and say “no problem here”. The problem is only visible when you look at recent data. The world is dynamic. Things change. If it is something important changes (and while climate is definitely important, an argument could be made that big-budget films and their yearly pat-on-the-back party isn’t), you have to be vigilant. You can’t just stick your fingers in your ears and say “it’s just a statistical blip!”. It may be. But simply pointing at historical data isn’t going to help you make that argument. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/15 "2016-01-19T21:07:45Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > But you can’t just point at the last 15 years and say “what problem?”. Two years in a row, there are _zero_ black actors nominated. That’s a problem. That’s a new problem. what specific people were snubbed? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/16 "2016-01-19T21:09:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That there have been some black nominees and winners doesn’t necessarily mean that some deserving black performers and directors are not snubbed due to bias in the Academy. Considering the movies and nominees from the last two years, I think it’s more likely that there is some bias in voting that hurt potential black nominees than that there were no black performers or directors that were as good as the actual nominees. Ok, then prove it. You think it is likely, however, what you think has no bearing on what is really happening. For the record, I have no idea if there is an actual issue. There are roughly 500 movies released to theaters a year (Cite, [Is Hollywood Making Too Many Movies?](http://variety.com/2015/film/news/hollywood-making-too-many-movies-1201526094/) but the numbers are a bit old) African Americans are ~13% of the population. Assuming a 1 to 1 ratio of movie actors race to population, then there should be roughly 50 black stars in movies each year and 450 white (ignoring other populations). There are 20 open nominations for the acting awards (according to Spike Lee, I didn’t double check\*) . So, assuming that there is no real difference in quality based on race, we should expect ~2 nominees a year to be black across all acting nominations. Lets assume that only the best movies and performances are nominated (BWHAHAHA!). There are 5 Best Oscar nominee positions open. If the top 1% of lead actors get nominated that means there would be 4.5 from the 450 ‘white’ movies and .5 from the ‘black’ movies. Given the numbers listed in the OP, it seems that for about half the years blacks are over represented. Slee - > [@](#): > > But, How Is It Possible For The 2nd Consecutive Year All 20 Contenders Under The Actor Category Are White? And Let’s Not Even Get Into The Other Branches. 40 White Actors In 2 Years And No Flava At All. We Can’t Act?! WTF!! [Link](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/spike-lee-wont-attend-oscars-856676) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/17 "2016-01-19T21:11:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why the hell don’t you do it? Because I’m only slightly interested, and I’m waiting for someone else to do it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/18 "2016-01-19T21:12:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > That you “think” there might be a “possiblity” is probably not convincing many people the other way either. Maybe that’s part of my secret plan. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/19 "2016-01-19T21:14:01Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > really? > > look how long it took Socrcesse to get an Oscar. Decades. And you are going to claim that there is bias against black people because of the past - 2 - years? > > In the past 15 years: > > 29 nominations > 9 wins > > no bias The problem with the conclusion you are drawing are as follows: 1. Your stat is for 15 years, during which Blacks had a better than average run, making it misleading. 2. Your stat doesn’t include other categories. 3. Your stat isn’t comparing the percentage of actors who are Black to the percentage that have been awarded. As such, it’s basically impossible to draw the conclusion you have just based on that. Even if you were right, you don’t have sufficient statistical justification. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/20 "2016-01-19T21:14:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe that’s part of my secret plan. or maybe there is no actualyl bias on the part of the Academy towards African Americans [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611.md?page=2)