# So it seems the claim that the Oscars are snubbing black people is false **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611 "2016-01-19T19:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/41 "2016-01-19T22:02:39Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > That’s the denominator for total nominations - not for total population of actors in qualifying roles that did not get nominated. > > If the population of eligible actors is 45% non-white and the number of non-white people nominated is 10% then that could be something to explore. If the population of eligible actors is 1% non-white and the number of non-white people nominated is 10%, that’s less newsworthy. This assumes that all actors have the same acting ability as well. A quick google shows black actors are about the same percent of actors as the general population, about 13%. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/42 "2016-01-19T22:03:24Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > . It is that there have been zero nominations in many years (two years running) COUPLED with the fact that there were specific performances this year, for example, that could have been nominated (eg. Idris Elba, Michael B Jordan) were not recognized… I think calling two years running “many years” is a bit of misleading hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/43 "2016-01-19T22:04:45Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > What more stats do you need??? > > 29 nominations > 9 wins > > Well, the: > > 29 nominations > 9 wins > > would indicate to me that there is no bias > > 3 nominations > 1 win > > would indicate bias Bias is really hard to determine when you have one or two winners a year. To really see bias you need enough data points that you get a law of large numbers sort of effect. Whatever bias exists in Hollywood, it is background radiation. I don’t think Hollywood is where you see expressions of racism or bigotry. If there is bias, then the academy probably doesn’t even know they are biased, they just have a natural preference for blonde chicks and guys that look like Tom Hanks. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/44 "2016-01-19T22:06:44Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why do you agree to that? Again, you stat is the equivalent of saying in the past 25 years, a quarter of our presidents have been Black therefore no bias exists against Black people running for the office. > > How do you know? Where are the stats? > > You missed the point. The percentage of Black people in the US has little to do with the percentage of actors who are Black. That’s why your stat is misleading. Your denominator is missing. > > However, you are also missing the point that the zero nominations is only part of the critique. Few are saying zero nominations in and of itself must be bias. It is that there have been zero nominations in many years (two years running) COUPLED with the fact that there were specific performances this year, for example, that could have been nominated (eg. Idris Elba, Michael B Jordan) were not recognized. Additionally, you have odd circumstances like Stallone being nominated, but not his costar, who many argue was better, or the director (both of whom are Black). > > Again, even if your conclusion is correct, your reasoning is specious. 1- Well, I’m not a statistician and don’t claim to be one. But even with my limited understanding it still seems like 29 wins and 9 nominations proves that the Academy has no problem nominating or awarding to African Americans. 2- The Netflix movie was not eligible for nomination. 3- So all you are really left with is 1 example in 2 years, Jordan… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/45 "2016-01-19T22:08:42Z")
Was going to add: Whites are over represented at about 72% of SAG, making up the difference from Hispanic actors who are massively underrepresented at 7% ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/46 "2016-01-19T22:10:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > yeah > > it has to be released in both NYC and LA and run for like 2 weeks I think… which I don’t think the Netflix movie was. > > I’d agree, he did an excellent job in that movie I think it was. The wiki says it played in independent theaters due to the boycott against it by big chains. Additionally, [538](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/oscar-nominations-2016-snubs/) says Elba had 6-1 odds to win it all, so I presume he was eligible. I could be wrong, but I see no evidence of that being the case. > [@billfish678](#): > > I think calling two years running “many years” is a bit of misleading hyperbole. Two years is not many years. I was commenting on the fact that many if not most years have no Black actors nominated, and that that trend has happened two years in a row. I wasn’t saying two is many. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/47 "2016-01-19T22:12:22Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > What more stats do you need??? > > 29 nominations > 9 wins > > Well, the: > > 29 nominations > 9 wins > > would indicate to me that there is no bias > > 3 nominations > 1 win > > would indicate bias Can you show your math please? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/48 "2016-01-19T22:12:28Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I think it was. The wiki says it played in independent theaters due to the boycott against it by big chains. Additionally, [538](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/oscar-nominations-2016-snubs/) says Elba had 6-1 odds to win it all, so I presume he was eligible. I could be wrong, but I see no evidence of that being the case. ok, well, perhaps/probably i was wrong. he definitely did a great job in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/49 "2016-01-19T22:15:44Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Can you show your math please? You can link to **EyebrowsofDoom** if you want (first post), I am repeating what he listed. I apologize if it seems I am making an excuse, I’m not a statistician and don’t claim to be one… ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/50 "2016-01-19T22:22:23Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > 1- Well, I’m not a statistician and don’t claim to be one. But even with my limited understanding it still seems like 29 wins and 9 nominations proves that the Academy has no problem nominating or awarding to African Americans. Proves nothing of the sort. It is evidence that the Academy is not utterly opposed to nominating or awarding to African-Americans, but it says nothing about whether African-Americans have equal opportunity, or whether performances of similar caliber are treated equally. A lack of such equality is a problem–it may not be as big a problem as an absolute ban, but it’s still a problem. In fifteen years, there were roughly 300 nominations for acting awards, of which African-Americans garnered 29. That’s just under ten percent. African-Americans make up what percentage of SAG? and had what percentage of roles eligible for nomination? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/51 "2016-01-19T22:24:46Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > 1- Well, I’m not a statistician and don’t claim to be one. But even with my limited understanding it still seems like 29 wins and 9 nominations proves that the Academy has no problem nominating or awarding to African Americans. And yet, you keep repeating this misleading stat as if it means anything either way. Again, as of tomorrow, 50% of the US presidents in the past 15 years have been Black. Does that tell you ANYTHING about political bias along racial lines? > [@Robert163](#): > > 2- The Netflix movie was not eligible for nomination. Do you have a cite for that? This seems to [argue](http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2015/10/19/why-netflixs-beast-of-no-nation-box-office-flop-doesnt-matter/#2715e4857a0b2ae8dc466ef9) it was eligible. > [@Robert163](#): > > 3- So all you are really left with is 1 example in 2 years, Jordan… Well, no. People complained about Coogler not being nominated for Creed, Will Smith not being nominated for Concussion, no nominations for Straight Outta Compton, among others. That’s just for this year. I haven’t seen most of the movies so I cannot personally comment on their quality, but there were many people who others argue were snubbed. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/52 "2016-01-19T22:25:52Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Proves nothing of the sort. It is evidence that the Academy is not utterly opposed to nominating or awarding to African-Americans, but it says nothing about whether African-Americans have equal opportunity, or whether performances of similar caliber are treated equally. A lack of such equality is a problem–it may not be as big a problem as an absolute ban, but it’s still a problem. > > In fifteen years, there were roughly 300 nominations for acting awards, of which African-Americans garnered 29. That’s just under ten percent. African-Americans make up what percentage of SAG? and had what percentage of roles eligible for nomination? > [@](#): > > That’s just under ten percent. African Americans make up 13% of the population of the USA. So if they are nominated 10% of the time how is that a “bias”? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/53 "2016-01-19T22:30:20Z")
It looks like “Beast of no nation” was eligible, but they definitely flipped the bird at the movie establishment. I am sure that cost it many votes.\ eta: I mentioned a few posts back that the % of black actors in SAG is similar to the general population (or at least those getting jobs/showing up for casting calls). I got that from a [2007/2008 SAG report](http://www.sagaftra.org/files/sag/documents/2007-2008_CastingDataReports.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/54 "2016-01-19T23:05:18Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > And yet, you keep repeating this misleading stat as if it means anything either way. Again, as of tomorrow, 50% of the US presidents in the past 15 years have been Black. Does that tell you ANYTHING about political bias along racial lines? I already admitted that previous to 15 years ago it was biased. > [@](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? This seems to [argue](http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2015/10/19/why-netflixs-beast-of-no-nation-box-office-flop-doesnt-matter/#2715e4857a0b2ae8dc466ef9) it was eligible. Yes, I was wrong about that. > [@](#): > > Well, no. People complained about Coogler not being nominated for Creed, Will Smith not being nominated for Concussion, no nominations for Straight Outta Compton, among others. That’s just for this year. I haven’t seen most of the movies so I cannot personally comment on their quality, but there were many people who others argue were snubbed. Have you seen Straight Out Of Compton? I think you said no, right? I’d say Will Smith and Idris Elba were snubbed except that they usually are regarded pretty well… No nominations for Elba… not a good sign, he’s very talented. Lots of other awards/nominations but none form the Oscars. Only two for Will Smith, 2 nominations, no wins. Nominations/wins: Rockwell - 0 Ruffalo- 3 Hawk- 4 Gosling - 1 DiCaprio- 5 (Bardeem- 3, 1 win Downey - 2 (Jude) Law- 2 Crowe- 3, 1 win Gyllenhall - 1 (Colin) Farrell - 1, 1 win Norton- 3 Hardy- 1 (Josh) Brolin- 1 Oscar Issac - 0 Fassbender - 2 J Phoenix- 2 Franco- 2 McConaughey- 1, 1 win Gordon-Levitt - 0 Giamatti- 1 (Michael) Shannon- 1 (Bradley) Cooper- 3 Very few wins on there and lots of very talented actors. But, it does seem to skew in the favor of white actors. I’ll select black actors from that list for comparison… next post Best Actors under [50](http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059098815/) ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/55 "2016-01-19T23:18:54Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > African Americans make up 13% of the population of the USA. So if they are nominated 10% of the time how is that a “bias”? Their percentage of the U.S. population is irrelevant; the relevant group is something more like “Oscar-worthy performances.” Now, how do you measure that? If, e.g., blacks give 25% of Oscar-worthy performances but collect 10% of nominations, that’s gross bias. If they give 6% of such performances but collect 10% of nominations, that’s also biased, in the opposite direction. Which is closer to accurate? Without a reasonably accurate number for the denominator, you’re whistling in the wind, and you don’t have it. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/56 "2016-01-19T23:19:33Z")
TOP 50 ACTORS [under the age 50](http://www.imdb.com/list/ls059098815/) (I selected who I thought were the best, didn’t want to do all 50) Nominations/wins Rockwell - 0 Ruffalo- 3 Hawk- 4 Gosling - 1 DiCaprio- 5 (Bardeem- 3, 1 win Downey - 2 (Jude) Law- 2 Crowe- 3, 1 win Gyllenhall - 1 (Colin) Farrell - 1, 1 win Norton- 3 Hardy- 1 (Josh) Brolin- 1 Oscar Issac - 0 Fassbender - 2 J Phoenix- 2 Franco- 2 McConaughey- 1, 1 win Gordon-Levitt - 0 Giamatti- 1 (Michael) Shannon- 1 (Bradley) Cooper- 3 A total of 4 wins 3 actors I selected had 0 wins and 0 nominations Black Actors from the list (includes all black actors from the list) Smith- 2 Foxx- 2 Ejiofor- 1 Elba- 0 0 wins only 4 black actors made the list of top 50 under 50… it seems there is a bit of racism/bias here… IDK… is there? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/57 "2016-01-19T23:22:24Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Their percentage of the U.S. population is irrelevant; the relevant group is something more like “Oscar-worthy performances.” Now, how do you measure that? > > If, e.g., blacks give 25% of Oscar-worthy performances but collect 10% of nominations, that’s gross bias. If they give 6% of such performances but collect 10% of nominations, that’s also biased, in the opposite direction. Which is closer to accurate? still don’t understand > [@](#): > > Without a reasonably accurate number for the denominator, you’re whistling in the wind, and you don’t have it. don’t understand why people keep talking about the denominator (29/300… or did you mean something else?) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/58 "2016-01-19T23:25:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I already admitted that previous to 15 years ago it was biased. Then by the same token, do you feel that it has become more biased again, in the past nine years? As I pointed out in the original thread, **Eyebrows** ’ data set was chosen for best-possible spin on the point of black actors’ representation. Best Actor: 2007 NONE 2008 NONE 2009 Morgan Freeman 2010 NONE 2011 NONE 2012 Denzel Washington 2013 Chiwetel Ejiofor 2014 NONE 2015 NONE Best Actress: 2007 NONE 2008 NONE 2009 Gabourey Sidibe 2010 NONE 2011 Viola Davis 2012 Quvenzhané Wallis 2013 NONE 2014 NONE 2015 NONE Supporting Actor: 2007 NONE 2008 NONE 2009 NONE 2010 NONE 2011 NONE 2012 NONE 2013 Barkhad Abdi 2014 NONE 2015 NONE Supporting Actress: 2007 Ruby Dee 2008 Viola Davis AND Taraji P. Henson 2009 Mo’Nique (winner) 2010 NONE 2011 Octavia Spencer (winner) 2012 NONE 2013 Lupita Nyong’o (winner) 2014 NONE 2015 NONE ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/59 "2016-01-19T23:29:49Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Then by the same token, do you feel that it has become more biased again, in the past nine years? As I pointed out in the original thread, **Eyebrows** ’ data set was chosen for best-possible spin on the point of black actors’ representation. > > Best Actor: > 2007 NONE > 2008 NONE > 2009 Morgan Freeman > 2010 NONE > 2011 NONE > 2012 Denzel Washington > 2013 Chiwetel Ejiofor > 2014 NONE > 2015 NONE > > Best Actress: > 2007 NONE > 2008 NONE > 2009 Gabourey Sidibe > 2010 NONE > 2011 Viola Davis > 2012 Quvenzhané Wallis > 2013 NONE > 2014 NONE > 2015 NONE > > Supporting Actor: > 2007 NONE > 2008 NONE > 2009 NONE > 2010 NONE > 2011 NONE > 2012 NONE > 2013 Barkhad Abdi > 2014 NONE > 2015 NONE > > Supporting Actress: > 2007 Ruby Dee > 2008 Viola Davis AND Taraji P. Henson > 2009 Mo’Nique (winner) > 2010 NONE > 2011 Octavia Spencer (winner) > 2012 NONE > 2013 Lupita Nyong’o (winner) > 2014 NONE > 2015 NONE Yes, I agree, the vast number of years with NONE is not a good sign ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611/60 "2016-01-19T23:30:59Z")
There’s bias in that list but I have no idea how it was compiled. AFAIK it’s just whatever this “changoander” guy thought. Why not do a comparison on [top grossing actors](http://www.imdb.com/list/ls074328260/) or something else more objective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-seems-the-claim-that-the-oscars-are-snubbing-black-people-is-false/743611.md?page=4)