# So it turns out that Judas didn't betray Jesus after all... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 6, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605 "2006-04-06T18:01:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/41 "2006-04-08T17:49:49Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > Having listened to the musical “Jesus Christ Superstar” approximately fourthousandfiftytwohundred times as a kid. Might I just mention, parenthetically, that that seems to me to be one bucketload of listenings. Then again, I became so deeply hooked on my cassette of **Godspell** that I wore out the cassette. Twice. :eek: Have you ever noticed that if you start the soundtrack to " J.C.S. " at exactly the first note and synchronize it with the first frame of the original “Star Wars”, … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/42 "2006-04-08T17:52:01Z")
Non-wise-assed post. 'Tis the season for this kind of stuff it seems. I would dearly love to know what Judas really thought, really did and whether or not he was asked to do so by Jesus. We’ll never know. ( Robert Silverberg fans aside 😃 ) IF the document’s provenance is indisputable, well…dang. That’s pretty neat. Is it just coincidence that this document was stored in Hicksville, NY- the very same town where Billy Joel hung out during his formative years? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/43 "2006-04-08T18:01:56Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The worst Judas I’ve ever seen was at a Passion Play in Eureka Springs Arkansas (home of the world’s largest [milk carton Jesus](http://www.mischel.com/diary/2003/06/cozark.jpg)). That Judas, on a prerecorded soundtrack, had an incredible soundalike resemblance to Ming the Merciless from the late lamented Flash Gordon Saturday cartoons. So did the priests, for that matter. That is _so_ near my hometown. And my mother would love it if I’d go see it. She doesn’t accept that I don’t have much interest in anything churchy, although I’ve told her so. ---
**Author:** ![Gladstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gladstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gladstone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/44 "2006-04-08T18:09:55Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > IIRC (Dio can certainly correct me if I’m wrong and I bow to his verdict), Barabbas is also seen as a parable, with Pilate essentially asking the crowd “who do you want, Jesus the Son of God, or Jesus the son of mortal man [Hebrew: \*bar abbas \* = _son of a father_]” and they scream “Jesus, the son of a mortal man”, thus denying his divinity. Back then, however, “son of God” did not mean what we see it to mean today. A Jew saying they were a son of God then is roughly analogous to a preacher telling people that they are the children of God today. The more controversial claim that Jesus made was that he was the “son of man,” which meant that he was the fulfillment of prophecy. This is something that the Pharisees and others refused to accept. Jesus never explicitly claimed that he was, in fact, divine. That’s whether he was fully divine, fully human, or part divine/part human was a doctrinal question that was answered (or at least asserted) by the Council of Nicea centuries after Jesus’ death. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Mrs\_O\_Malley\_s\_Cow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs_O_Malley_s_Cow)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/45 "2006-04-08T18:15:49Z")
Should this not be in Great Debates or Cafe Society? Just wondering. When looking at anything, especially things with media sensation behind it and/or anything like “secret teachings” “opressed by\_\_\_\_\_” or the like, look at it through the eyes of a skeptic. Many times they are not telling the entire story or are making a mountain out of a molehill. And sometimes, it is just false information. Be careful out there in media land, fellow dopers. (I am feeling under the weather so I am going to lay on the couch and watch I Love the 80s:3D which I have DVRed) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/46 "2006-04-08T18:45:59Z")
> [@Gladstone](#): > > Back then, however, “son of God” did not mean what we see it to mean today. A Jew saying they were a son of God then is roughly analogous to a preacher telling people that they are the children of God today. The more controversial claim that Jesus made was that he was the “son of man,” which meant that he was the fulfillment of prophecy. This is something that the Pharisees and others refused to accept. > > Jesus never explicitly claimed that he was, in fact, divine. That’s whether he was fully divine, fully human, or part divine/part human was a doctrinal question that was answered (or at least asserted) by the Council of Nicea centuries after Jesus’ death. “Son of God” was also used as a designation for kings of Israel. It still wasn’t used to denote the literal, physical ofspring of a deity, but “Son of God” could certainly be used as a way to imply that someone was a rightful heir to the throne of David – i.e, the Messiah. “Son of Man” (actually “son of Adam.” Adam means “man”) was just a Hebrew/Aramic way to refer to all human beings. Everybody is a son of Adam. It had no titular meaning in ancient Judaism. It acquired a Messainic meaning in Christianity because the book of Daniel says that the Messiah will be “one like a son of Adam” – i.e. a human being. Mark took a generic phrase for “humans” and recast it is a titular phrase for the Messiah but the Pharisees would not have seen it as such or had any problem with it. There was nothing wrong with even claiming to be the Messiah for that matter. People might think you were wrong or you were crazy, but you wouldn’t be breaking any laws or anything. Having said all that, Mark’s use of those terms reflected his own theology and perception of the Messiah and did not necessarily correspond to how they were used in Jesus’ actual historical milieu. All the more reason to read the Barabbas story as parabolic rather than historical. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605/47 "2006-04-10T16:37:08Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Just found [this](http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/006/7.26.html). Kinda answers my question just posed. > > Interesting stuff… Or look here [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-it-turns-out-that-judas-didnt-betray-jesus-after-all/351605.md?page=2)