# So it's fucking war then **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021 "2003-03-17T16:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/121 "2003-03-20T13:42:11Z")
and **dave** I left right after posting that last night, and decided you deserved a straight answer to your question of ‘would you feel better’ yaddy yaddy yaddy. Perhaps, the near stabbing victim would feel better for a moment, until, of course, you ran off w/the fur coat leaving me at the mercy of the other thug in the vicinity. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/122 "2003-03-20T16:45:15Z")
Analogies are fun! To continue with this one, the problem I have is that your attitude is “I know you’re going to run off with the coat” when you don’t know any such thing. It’s speculation on your part. ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/123 "2003-03-20T16:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Do you wish Saddam were your president? \*\* Hey Lib, without bothering to link to every other post in which you have commented regarding Iraq,may I just ask you one thing? Out of your last 1,000 posts or so, have you said anything useful that wasn’t steeped in bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/124 "2003-03-20T17:00:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wabbit \* > \*\*Wow–we thought the Somalis would be push-overs too. Don’t recall that being the case, however, do you? Point of fact: that was the last time we fought an urban campaign and we got our asses handed to us. Now I hope you’re right, I really do, but going into a war with blinders on is just foolhardy. The only people that can prevent this from getting nasty now are mid-level Iraqi bureaucrats and military officers. It’s in their hands and I hope and pray to whatever supreme being there is that they do the right thing. \*\* This ain’t Somalia. You can theorize all you want on your doomsday scenarios, I’ll stick with reality. We will march right up to Bagdad, and this will be over in no more then 3 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/125 "2003-03-20T17:49:36Z")
No shit this isn’t Somalia. However, the lesson we _should_ have learned there is that assuming things about your enemy is dangerous and foolhardy. My personal belief is that you have about a 50% chance of being right and I sincerely hope you are. But you have to realize that this has the potential to turn into a bloodbath. All it takes is one Iraqi officer to decide to launch gas-warhead missiles (which I’m pretty sure they have) at Israel and/or the Kurds and we’ve got hundreds of civilian deaths. Will the Special Republican Guard fight? Nobody knows, I suppose it depends on how dependent they are on Saddam for their continued survival and how patriotic they are. I do know however that assuming they won’t is stupid. Arrogance has no place on the battlefield. And while I don’t like Saddam (and I usually respect your positions **Lib** but when you said that you were being a damn fool), I’m thinking our President and his band of advisors are showing a remarkable lack of caution in their actions. Look up the Greek concept of _hubris_: our actions to date are a textbook example of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/126 "2003-03-20T18:19:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*Eh? What might the card mean? George, what up with the cards? \*\* He’s talking about getting his tarot cards read by Nancy Reagan’s former astrologer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/127 "2012-01-09T09:24:24Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > All we can do now is hope it’s short and concise; that civilian casualties are minimal; that allied and Iraqi forces casualties are small; that the repercussions and recruitment to Islamist terrorism aren’t as huge as they might be; that the humanitarian side-effects are minimised; that Hussein doesn’t indeed have hidden WMD that he’ll unleash; that Israel isn’t attacked; that Israel doesn’t retaliate if attacked; that a post-Saddam Iraq will be a better place for the Iraqi people. > > Fuck. :mad: Except for the WMD bit, none of the hopes were realised. Yes I know, zombie, thread, please close. But, its puts a nice line through it dose’nt it? ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/128 "2012-01-09T09:28:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Except for the WMD bit, none of the hopes were realised. > Yes I know, zombie, thread, please close. But, its puts a nice line through it dose’nt it? Wow - _someone_ had to have the last word. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/129 "2012-01-09T11:56:57Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Out of interest, just what is the acceptable figure to you for civilian fatalities. Come on, give us a nice round number: 100; 1000; 10,000; more even? Ah, if only the numbers had been so small. But then they were only Iraqis; it’s not like they are _people_. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/130 "2012-01-09T12:12:10Z")
Jesus, I woke up and saw this thread and assumed it meant we were going to war with Iran. … We aren’t, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/131 "2012-01-09T12:17:07Z")
Iran… Not yet. I’m also bummed that our edit window is 5 minutes, and not 10 years, because I would like to change quite a bit of what I wrote back then. Guess that goes with a life where war meant Grenada and the first Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/132 "2012-01-09T13:21:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, if only the numbers had been so small. But then they were only Iraqis; it’s not like they are _people_. Do me a favour. I had some prick calling me a drama queen for suggesting 10,000 fatalities. Imagine if I’d mentioned a hundred thousand. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/133 "2012-01-09T13:25:25Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Except for the WMD bit, none of the hopes were realised. True, Saddam Hussein didn’t unleash any weapons of mass destruction, but insurgents have been using his old stockpiles of chemical weapons to make their IEDs. “WMD” aren’t just nukes. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/134 "2012-01-09T13:34:38Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > True, Saddam Hussein didn’t unleash any weapons of mass destruction, but insurgents have been using his old stockpiles of chemical weapons to make their IEDs. “WMD” aren’t just nukes. This claim surprised me, so I did a quick google search which turned up 2 incidents of supposed Chemical weapon IEDs. One was in 2004, and the other was someone adding bug standard chlorine liquid (i.e. Clorox) to a bomb to try to add chorine gas to the outcome (it didn’t really work) So can you provide some other examples to substantiate your claim please? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/135 "2012-01-09T13:55:45Z")
> [@Wabbit](#): > > No shit this isn’t Somalia. However, the lesson we _should_ have learned there is that assuming things about your enemy is dangerous and foolhardy. My personal belief is that you have about a 50% chance of being right and I sincerely hope you are. But you have to realize that this has the potential to turn into a bloodbath. All it takes is one Iraqi officer to decide to launch gas-warhead missiles (which I’m pretty sure they have) at Israel and/or the Kurds and we’ve got hundreds of civilian deaths. Will the Special Republican Guard fight? Nobody knows, I suppose it depends on how dependent they are on Saddam for their continued survival and how patriotic they are. I do know however that assuming they won’t is stupid. Arrogance has no place on the battlefield. And while I don’t like Saddam (and I usually respect your positions **Lib** but when you said that you were being a damn fool), I’m thinking our President and his band of advisors are showing a remarkable lack of caution in their actions. Look up the Greek concept of _hubris_: our actions to date are a textbook example of it. Makes me want to cry. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/136 "2012-01-09T14:05:17Z")
All I can say is thank God we wrapped the whole thing up in two to three weeks the way **World Eater** predicted. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/137 "2012-01-09T14:08:08Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > This claim surprised me, so I did a quick google search which turned up 2 incidents of supposed Chemical weapon IEDs. One was in 2004, and the other was someone adding bug standard chlorine liquid (i.e. Clorox) to a bomb to try to add chorine gas to the outcome (it didn’t really work) > > So can you provide some other examples to substantiate your claim please? Given that I did not claim how many have been used, seems to me that you’ve already substantiated my claim. Anyway, in November of 2004, coalition forces reported the capture of an ICD factory near Fallujah. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/138 "2012-01-09T14:21:13Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Given that I did not claim how many have been used, seems to me that you’ve already substantiated my claim. > > Anyway, in November of 2004, coalition forces reported the capture of an ICD factory near Fallujah. I realize that the edit window has closed, but you really should have said, “once used,” rather than “have been using,” in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/139 "2012-01-09T14:49:17Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Given that I did not claim how many have been used, seems to me that you’ve already substantiated my claim. Just to be clear, and apologies if I’ve misunderstood, but are you arguing that the use of 1 sarin gas shell in an IED in 2004 actually shows that Saddam’s regime had significant weapons of mass destruction? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/140 "2012-01-09T14:56:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > All I can say is thank God we wrapped the whole thing up in two to three weeks the way **World Eater** predicted. That was the real irony: **World Eater** and **Wabbit** were both right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021.md?page=8)