# So it's fucking war then **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021 "2003-03-17T16:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/141 "2012-01-09T15:06:21Z")
> [@SanibelMan](#): > > Jesus, I woke up and saw this thread and assumed it meant we were going to war with Iran. > > … We aren’t, right? Me too. Jesus, 2003 was nearly 10 years ago…[del]have we[/del] has Iraq been in hell that long? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/142 "2012-01-09T15:41:06Z")
And it’s a long way from being over. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/143 "2012-01-09T15:42:23Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Me too. Jesus, 2003 was nearly 10 years ago…[del]have we[/del] has Iraq been in hell that long? No, Iraq was in hell for decades. It may have finally emerged from it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/144 "2012-01-09T15:50:03Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > No, Iraq was in hell for decades. It may have finally emerged from it. In much the samev sense that Somalia is no longer under a Communist dictatorship, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/145 "2012-01-09T15:59:50Z")
As I have said elsewhere on this board, I originally thought we (US) should go and take out the madman we created. I was wrong. How many Iragis have died? We know to the number how many of our brave troops have been killed or maimed. Is there any similar stat on the numbers of other HUMAN BEINGS who happened to have been Iragi? This really bothers me. Bush went there because Hussein threatened his father. And because Cheney was his puppeteer. A whole decade, and what did we get? UUUUUUUrrrrr. \ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/146 "2012-01-09T16:31:39Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > This claim surprised me With eight years to come up with some spin on what happened? No, claims like this don’t surprise me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/147 "2012-01-09T16:41:50Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Given that I did not claim how many have been used, seems to me that you’ve already substantiated my claim. > > Anyway, in November of 2004, coalition forces reported the capture of an ICD factory near Fallujah. “. . .insurgents have been using his old stockpiles of chemical weapons to make their IEDs.” Nice try. Your statement implies that there were large amounts of chemical weapons and that those “stockpiles” were and are being used to make IEDs. Do you have a cite for that, and do you have another for the ICD factory? Cuz otherwise we would have to conclude that you’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/148 "2012-01-09T16:52:01Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > “. . .insurgents have been using his old stockpiles of chemical weapons to make their IEDs.” > > Nice try. Your statement implies that there were large amounts of chemical weapons and that those “stockpiles” were and are being used to make IEDs. Do you have a cite for that, and do you have another for the ICD factory? Cuz otherwise we would have to conclude that you’re full of shit. “We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.” If you can’t trust Rumsfeld, who can you trust? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/149 "2012-01-09T16:57:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > “. . .insurgents have been using his old stockpiles of chemical weapons to make their IEDs.” > > Nice try. Your statement implies that there were large amounts of chemical weapons and that those “stockpiles” were and are being used to make IEDs. Do you have a cite for that, and do you have another for the ICD factory? Cuz otherwise we would have to conclude that you’re full of shit. I think he meant that the troops found a _pile of stockings_ that belonged to SH, and that the insurgents were using those to wrap IEDs in. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/150 "2012-01-09T17:40:52Z")
Actually, Saddam had thousands of tones of such weapons, some of which he even used on his own people. Mind you, most of them were destroyed during Desert Storm, aka the Gulf War (sanctioned by the UN) in 1990 or so. A few stockpiles of old, decayed warheads and stuff, buried under the desert sand etc, were found after the 2003 Invasion ( ordered by GWB). These were more dangerous to the environment than as ordnance, but I guess they could have been used as IEDs. The point being- although there was evidence Saddam was rebuilding his arsenal during the sanctions period (he even bragged as much) it turned out not to be true. Once Saddam let Blix back in, and Blix had reported “Can’t find anything so far”, there was no reason at all to invade. There was reason to threaten force unless Saddam let Blix back in, sure, but once he did, the invasion was without need. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/151 "2012-01-09T19:39:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Once Saddam let Blix back in, and Blix had reported “Can’t find anything so far”, there was no reason at all to invade. There was reason to threaten force unless Saddam let Blix back in, sure, but once he did, the invasion was without need. Depends on your definition of ‘reason’ and ‘need.’ ISTM that Shrubby desperately _needed_ to parade around in a flight suit, as if he had personally taken out Saddam. But I think the entire notion that the Bushies were invading Iraq for humanitarian reasons, to any degree whatsoever, has been demolished by their handling of the occupation. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/152 "2012-01-09T19:46:16Z")
Whoa, this zombie thread is so weird. I remember when it was opened. I was in high school then. Finishing up my Junior year. Since that time I’ve graduated, been to Iraq _twice_, got out, got married, and am now in college. Seems like yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/153 "2012-01-09T20:41:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A few stockpiles of old, decayed warheads and stuff, buried under the desert sand etc, were found after the 2003 Invasion Really? That conflicts with my memory. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/154 "2012-01-09T20:55:47Z")
What a great post, bringing this zombie back to life. We really need a forum to discuss zombies like this, perhaps limited to threads dead five years or so. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/155 "2012-01-09T21:56:39Z")
When I saw the posts by World Eater, starting a [post 2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3144727&postcount=2), at first I thought the name was Word Eater. That would have been awesome! ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/156 "2012-01-09T22:12:33Z")
Its actually quite hard to find out how many “WMD’s” were found in Iraq. The biggest single claim was Danish troops finding mortar bombs with mustard gas in them, but the articles suggests the ‘initial’ tests showed mustard gas, but later tests cleared them. Its possible that this single find of old buried and lost rounds makes up the large bulk of the claim below. There was a government report saying ~500 old denatured weapons in total were found, but there is no breakdown of this report, and no way to independently assess whether this number is accurate or not. It is clear that they were all prewar and that no evidence of current manufacture (as claimed) was ever found. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/157 "2012-01-10T18:07:39Z")
The title led me to think it was about Iran. Oh sorry, looks like I’m not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/158 "2012-01-10T18:13:46Z")
When **are** we going to have a fucking war? Sounds a lot more fun than a fighting war. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/159 "2012-01-10T18:17:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually, Saddam had thousands of tones of such weapons, some of which he even used on his own people. Mind you, most of them were destroyed during Desert Storm, aka the Gulf War (sanctioned by the UN) in 1990 or so. A few stockpiles of old, decayed warheads and stuff, buried under the desert sand etc, were found after the 2003 Invasion ( ordered by GWB). These were more dangerous to the environment than as ordnance, but I guess they could have been used as IEDs. Exactly. One of those stockpiles is presumably where the known Sarin shell originated. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021/160 "2012-01-10T18:20:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > When **are** we going to have a fucking war? Sounds a lot more fun than a fighting war. “Once more into the breach, dear friends, once more…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-fucking-war-then/162021.md?page=9)