# So it's okay to call another poster "goddamn liar" in IHMO now? Was it always okay? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 23, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472 "2013-04-23T04:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/81 "2013-04-26T22:56:03Z")
Okay, I can quit with the “name redacted” business. Really, as I wrote earlier, I was trying to maintain a patina of civility here, by not naming names while bitching in the same post about other posters (or their posts). Well, I thought that would help maintain a semblance of superficial diplomacy, anyway. I guest that didn’t work out so well. Anyway, can you all see a distinct change (and not for the better) in my tone here? Yeah, now I’m getting PO’d. I’m trying to maintain a civil thread here (well, I was), even to the point of bringing an occasional bit of levity to break up the tension — that other thread providing a distinct opportunity to do so. Only to get this? > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > What the hell was wrong with my post in that thread? I think you need to chill out. > > You know, I think this constant snarking about what you’re “going to report now that the rules have changed” is really insulting to the people who had real concerns and were bringing them up in earnest. **Marley23** (or any mod), can we get some feedback on that? Something beyond this? > [@Marley23](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was a joke. **ladyfoxfyre** , they’ve told me I should report things that I find offensive, so the mods can make their call on it. You wrote: “And continuing with the ‘reported’ nonsense doesn’t seem very honest either.” I wasn’t bluffing: I really did report this. In the report, of course, I’m allowed to make accusations that aren’t allowed publicly, and I stated exactly what rules I think you’re breaking. I wondered where it would go, and now maybe we’ll see what they say. And I’m wondering: Did you not see the humor there? Or did you see the humor, but think it was bad offensive humor? **Marley23** : Are you saying I’m wandering into warning territory, “name redacted” notwithstanding? If so, you didn’t say why. Because I wrote “Can the mods figure out what I mean by that remark?” (To which you answered: No.) Problem there was, I can’t state what my complaint was without, like, stating what my complaint was. Which itself would be a violation of the rules (I think). And it looks like that’s how you (ETA: and **Colibri** ) took it. Did my wording seem snarky there? I was casting about for a way to discuss it without stepping over the line. I gather, that isn’t it. Now, it may be that I’m just not understanding the protocol for raising a complaint. Am I just supposed to write a single-word post saying “Reported” and leave it at that? (Actually, I was already going to post a separate post asking about that.) Anyway, I did report, and I did state the complaint. [del]So far, from your response here, I’m thinking that my earlier speculation was right: That it won’t end well (for me, anyway).[/del] (Redacted in light of **Colibri** ’s post.) **Troppus** : It sounds like you are focusing on the MRM issues in your post. As I mentioned earlier, it’s not my interest in this thread to debate the merits of that. **Colibri** : With this post, do you still think I’m trolling? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/82 "2013-04-26T22:57:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure what post you reported or what the issue is, but just to confirm, I don’t get thread reports in ATMB. Or IMHO, for that matter. So you may have to wait a while and see how the mods of the relevant forum weigh in. Can do. Good opportunity now, therefore, for me to escape and do, you know, some _other_ stuff for a few hours. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/83 "2013-04-26T23:00:50Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > **Marley23** (or any mod), can we get some feedback on that? Something beyond this? She’s allowed to object to your opinion. I don’t think “chill out” is really worth modding. > [@](#): > > **Marley23** : Are you saying I’m wandering into warning territory, “name redacted” notwithstanding? No. I’m just saying it’s pointless. > [@](#): > > Because I wrote “Can the mods figure out what I mean by that remark?” (To which you answered: No.) Problem there was, I can’t state what my complaint was without, like, stating what my complaint was. Which itself would be a violation of the rules (I think) I really have no idea what you’re talking about here. > [@](#): > > Now, it may be that I’m just not understanding the protocol for raising a complaint. Am I just supposed to write a single-word post saying “Reported” and leave it at that? It’s usually better if you don’t say “reported.” Just report the post and leave it alone. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/84 "2013-04-26T23:12:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > **ladyfoxfyre** , they’ve told me I should report things that I find offensive, so the mods can make their call on it. You wrote: “And continuing with the ‘reported’ nonsense doesn’t seem very honest either.” I wasn’t bluffing: I really did report this. In the report, of course, I’m allowed to make accusations that aren’t allowed publicly, and I stated exactly what rules I think you’re breaking. I wondered where it would go, and now maybe we’ll see what they say. Wow. You have got to be kidding me. I’m not even going to engage with you any longer after this show. If you were seriously offended by that post, and not just engaging in some show of, what, spite? reductio ad absurdem?, then I fear there is no way to have a discussion with you about nearly anything. I haven’t found you to be humorous at all, mainly you’ve just come across as exceedingly pedantic. So no, I didn’t take your post as a joke because it borders so close to your actual objections about moderation. Offensive? No. I thought it was dumb, the same way I’ve thought the whole “overly ostentatious show of how visibly offended they are by things which are not offensive for the purpose of demonstrating the slippery slope of the new moderating direction” has been when everyone else does it. How ridiculous you are being. I await your inevitable report of this post. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/85 "2013-04-26T23:17:23Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I haven’t found you to be humorous at all[…] I have and am; **Senegoid** is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/86 "2013-04-26T23:17:54Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > How ridiculous you are. > I await your inevitable report of this post. No need to wait because this really is over the line. You can’t insult other posters in this forum. If you think **Senegoid** is not worth the time, just disengage. And it probably really would help you to take a breath and take this a little less seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/87 "2013-04-26T23:20:21Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > …a semblance of superficial diplomacy… Just gotta say, band name. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/88 "2013-04-26T23:55:40Z")
This whole “liar/lie” thing is pretty empty anyway, it becomes a grammar game, instead of a sincere examination of whether someone is being insulting (rude, a jerk). It’s supposed to represent “attack the post, not the poster”, but in reality poster attacks are SOP around here, and that thread brims with examples. What is insulting, what is rude, what is jerky, is _ **making it personal.** _ It isn’t all that complicated a distinction, really - when you start talking about _who someone is_, how they think, what they do, when you start speculating about their past, their experiences, their psychological makeup, well, \*you are making it personal \*and, for my money, being a jerk. Which is against the rules. Yet SDMB posters do that almost as a matter of course without anyone paying much attention at all, other than to admire and applaud one another’s cutting remarks. In the thread in question: > [@](#): > > You would have a lot more discussion if **your opinions** about the “issues” weren’t so obviously stupid. No one is obliged to pretend that **your nonsense** makes any sense just for the sake of discussion. > [@](#): > > I’m plainly done engaging **your crackpottery**. I’ll leave it to people with far more patience **for crazy** than I do. > [@](#): > > maybe it’s because you spent so much money and time earning that women’s studies degree and what I and others are bringing forward gets you all cranky. > > Sorry I know it sucks , maybe you should of taken a trade instead. > [@](#): > > You are simply too lazy to look up what you’re claiming and too arrogant to admit when you make a mistake. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > CCitizen, I’m curious; when is the last time you got laid? > > > [@](#): > > > > What does that have to do with the subject at hand? Wanting to know how long it’s been since you’ve had sex (if you’ve ever had it at all) is pertinent to understanding the mentality behind someone who might make an OP such as yours. > > > [@](#): > > > > Your desire to insult me as a person rather then address the issues may be result of your profession. > > > [@](#): > > > > Now it’s a sexist insult that I supposedly leveled against you? Look man, I asked you how long it’s been since you’ve had sex because it’s not exactly unheard of for MRAs and the sort (of which this OP is included) to use the “movements” simply as a vehicle for their sexual frustrations and resentments towards the women that they perceive to have rejected them or treated them as invisible beings. > [@](#): > > No, I think the OP took this thread off the rails with his paranoid distortions of what feminists stand for. Now it’s just kind of boring and redundant. > [@](#): > > My guesses: > > Ambivalid: phone center worker. > CCitizen: virgin. > > Do I need to be present to win? > [@](#): > > Posting in multicolor woo is mistake number two. I’m outa this here chat. (from a mod, no less): > [@](#): > > Are the red words in your posts the parts that Jesus said? > [@](#): > > Messiah complex? > [@](#): > > **Unsurprisingly** , you’re spectacularly misunderstanding a lot of things. > [@](#): > > it’s clear you aren’t even rational > [@](#): > > that’s why nobody is interesting in debating you. > [@](#): > > I need a shower after talking to you. If someone is lying about a factually provable thing, they are being a liar in that instance - liars are people who lie and that can be objectively demonstrated. So saying that someone is a liar when you can demonstrate that they have lied seems like a pretty weak example of being a jerk or being insulting. (Although I’m on board with it) The remarks above, however, are clear examples of the way posters veer away from discussion and debate about ideas and substitute mockery, insults, and shaming. Which is ugly, mean, and cheap. And depressingly common. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/89 "2013-04-27T00:18:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No need to wait because this really is over the line. You can’t insult other posters in this forum. If you think **Senegoid** is not worth the time, just disengage. And it probably really would help you to take a breath and take this a little less seriously. See, now, I think that LFF was using restraint and being careful to stay within the lines in this instance but you misquoted her, changing the fundamental character of what she said! She didn’t say > [@](#): > > How ridiculous you are. Which was how you quoted her! (Shame!) What she actually said was > [@](#): > > How ridiculous you are _ **being** _. and that is a distinction **WITH** a major difference! It is fair and reasonable, and not insulting (for insult’s sake) to say that someone is being ridiculous _ **in a particular and specific context.** _ That may be a bit harsh, but it is not the same thing as saying they are ridiculous. We all know this, do we not? Do I have to defend this further? “You are being silly” is not “You are silly” “You are being foolish” is not “you are foolish” Hell, man, that’s the whole point of this, right?: _ **“You lied” is not “You are a liar”** _ We can all be something in a given moment, even something unflattering, and we should be allowed to say so. What is insulting and jerky and over the line is saying that someone is anything unflattering all the time, that it is who they are, that it is a defining feature of their being. Not only is it jerky, none of us are qualified to say such things about each other given the context in which we know one another! We can ONLY speak to the way someone is being in the context of having this exchange on this forum, which is hardly a complete picture of anyone. Seems clear to me that if you keep that in mind when you are responding to people, modifying your language to reflect that, just as LFF just did, you won’t ever be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/90 "2013-04-27T01:06:09Z")
So I could tell you that you’re being a gibbering moron and it’s OK as long as I don’t actually call you a gibbering moron? I thought it was pretty cut-and-dried. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/91 "2013-04-27T01:27:17Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > So I could tell you that you’re being a gibbering moron and it’s OK as long as I don’t actually call you a gibbering moron? > > I thought it was pretty cut-and-dried. I guess I’d have to ask you a question: do you consider it acceptably impersonal and non-insulting to say to someone: “Your argument is the argument of a gibbering moron”? On the other hand, do you consider it unacceptably insulting and personal to say to someone “Your argument is ridiculous”? If you answer to both questions is yes, then I guess it’s not cut-and-dried at all and some further hammering is called for. (Although I confess I’m a little hazy on precisely what you consider cut-and-dried.) If it’s no, then you’ve answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/92 "2013-04-27T02:17:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No need to wait because this really is over the line. You can’t insult other posters in this forum. If you think **Senegoid** is not worth the time, just disengage. And it probably really would help you to take a breath and take this a little less seriously. Reported for changing a user’s words in a quote box. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/93 "2013-04-27T02:24:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > She didn’t say > > Which was how you quoted her! (Shame!) > > What she actually said was > > and that is a distinction **WITH** a major difference! > > It is fair and reasonable, and not insulting (for insult’s sake) to say that someone is being ridiculous _ **in a particular and specific context.** _ That may be a bit harsh, but it is not the same thing as saying they are ridiculous. We all know this, do we not? Do I have to defend this further? > [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > Reported for changing a user’s words in a quote box. She edited her post, and they both posted within five minutes. Looks like he just busted her before she realized she should probably self-censor. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/94 "2013-04-27T02:49:28Z")
I am so glad I am not a mod ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/95 "2013-04-27T03:25:22Z")
Is (Name Redacted) the new “Regards”? -\_- If so why not have some fun with it? Regards, [Name Redacted] ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/96 "2013-04-27T06:43:12Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > Reported for changing a user’s words in a quote box. Which of course he didn’t do. I checked, and **Marley** quoted the original version of **ladyfoxfire’s** post. **ladyfoxfire** changed her post, not **Marley**. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/97 "2013-04-27T14:25:01Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Since my question in this thread has _still_ not been addressed, I will ask _again_. > > Why is there not a rules and information sticky for IMHO? Just to be absolutely clear: there are the rules for the whole board, housed in ATMB. They are generally assumed to apply to all the forums. Some forum-moderators thought that special exceptions were required for their forums: the Pit and Great Debates, for instance. Some forums felt that special emphasis was required – for instance, spoilers are far more important in Cafe Society than in General Questions. Some forums are often “entry points” for newcomers, so the “forum rules/information” stickies are essentially links to the general rules (perhaps with forum definition.) Some forums didn’t see any need for repeating the link to the general rules or having special exceptions/emphasis, so there is no special forum rules thread in (say) ATMB or Elections or IMHO. So that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/98 "2013-04-27T16:52:48Z")
Kinda busy here, but wanted to throw these two cents in. And I apologize if this point has already been made. I think the “that’s a lie” and " you’re a liar" distinction is balony. IMO BOTH seriously imply the person is stating a falsehood ON PURPOSE. There are exceptions to that I suppose like “Expert X says Y”. Yeah its the expert that said it, not the poster so “thats a lie” stands on firm ground. But if someone says they did/saw/something else and someone else says “thats a lie”, thats prettty darn much calling the person a liar. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/99 "2013-04-27T17:21:49Z")
Thanks **C K Dexter Haven** and **Marley23** for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472/100 "2013-04-27T17:55:39Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Which was how you quoted her! (Shame!) > [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > Reported for changing a user’s words in a quote box. She edited her post after I hit the “quote” button. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-its-okay-to-call-another-poster-goddamn-liar-in-ihmo-now-was-it-always-okay/656472.md?page=6)