# So I've changed my mind: Donald Trump is pursuing a rational, intelligent strategy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2017, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119 "2017-01-25T05:28:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/61 "2017-01-27T19:09:06Z")
July 2015, apparently. He’s much better now! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/62 "2017-01-27T19:21:05Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > July 2015, apparently. He’s much better now! 2015, for sure. But better? Read this [full transcript of his CIA speech](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-cia-speech-transcript/). The demons in his head need a moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/63 "2017-01-27T21:36:04Z")
You know the old saying you can never go wrong in underestimating the stupidity of the general public? It goes double for the people managing TV news in Washington, DC. I know, I used to work for some of these people. FOMO is the overwhelming drive for everyone on camera and for those ordering those people around. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/64 "2017-01-27T22:06:04Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > 2015, for sure. But better? Read this [full transcript of his CIA speech](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-cia-speech-transcript/). The demons in his head need a moderator. It reads like satire. Satire is now truly dead, for how can it compete with such a reality? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/65 "2017-01-27T23:13:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The latest polls points to a free fall in support. They don’t actually. They do show historically low approval ratings for a new President. That says nothing about the trend. He won with Gallup showing a [34% percent approval rating](http://www.gallup.com/poll/197576/trump-favorability-trails-presidents-elect.aspx) in the last pre-election poll. Their daily poll from yesterday has him at 45%. His transition period trend is growing approval. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/66 "2017-01-27T23:48:18Z")
Trump has spent the last year or so proving the pundits and ‘experts’ in the media completely wrong. I have little doubt that he will continue so to do. The OP is dead right. Trump throws so many bones to the hounds of the press that they can barely keep up. Just as in his campaign every day brings a new shock horror headline. Meanwhile the President gets on with business, fulfilling pledges and pleasing the people who voted for him and many who didn’t ([union leaders who endorsed Hillary were invited to the White House recently and declared themselves pleased with the meeting.](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/business/economy/labor-leaders-trump-.html) They also said that they went the entire Obama administration without being invited to a similar meeting.) Crazy like a fox indeed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/67 "2017-01-28T01:12:22Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > They don’t actually. > > They do show historically low approval ratings for a new President. That says nothing about the trend. He won with Gallup showing a [34% percent approval rating](http://www.gallup.com/poll/197576/trump-favorability-trails-presidents-elect.aspx) in the last pre-election poll. Their daily poll from yesterday has him at 45%. > > His transition period trend is growing approval. Actually I was lokking at Gallup and then the new Quinnipiac University poll. > **[Poll: 36% approve of Trump’s job performance | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-approval-rating-quinnipiac-poll/index.html)** > > President Donald Trump enters office facing low job approval ratings and skepticism from voters, according to a new Quinnipiac University poll released Thursday. > [@](#): > > The survey found that 36% of American voters approve of Trump’s handling of his job after his first week, while 44% say they disapprove. But I can see there is a need for more surveys to report a free fall, so I will fall for the time being to what I pointed in another thread: that we can expect to see just about 30-45% range of support. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/68 "2017-01-28T01:14:21Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > I only can see Quinnipiac. some form of myopia, I suppose. Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own facts these days anyways. Moynihan was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/69 "2017-01-28T01:16:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Trump has spent the last year or so proving the pundits and ‘experts’ in the media completely wrong. I have little doubt that he will continue so to do. The OP is dead right. Trump throws so many bones to the hounds of the press that they can barely keep up. Just as in his campaign every day brings a new shock horror headline. Meanwhile the President gets on with business, fulfilling pledges and pleasing the people who voted for him and many who didn’t ([union leaders who endorsed Hillary were invited to the White House recently and declared themselves pleased with the meeting.](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/business/economy/labor-leaders-trump-.html) They also said that they went the entire Obama administration without being invited to a similar meeting.) > > Crazy like a fox indeed. I don’t think this was so strange, there where many democrats that wanted to see an infrastructure plan going. Of course it was evil while Obama was president, but democrats are more likely to approve of the big plan. For the congress Republicans that only looked at deficits… they do not exist for a Republican administration. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/70 "2017-01-28T01:20:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > But I can see there is a need for more surveys to report a free fall, so I will fall for the time being to what I pointed in another thread: that we can expect to see just about 30-45% range of support. I remember during the campaign people made various claims about Trump’s “ceiling” being in that range too. It looks like you might have been one of those people, but maybe I’m misreading it: > [@Will Trump survive his treatment of Khizr and Ghazala Khan?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-survive-his-treatment-of-khizr-and-ghazala-khan/761463/90): > > Well, the longer this goes the more I do think that Trump will survive indeed, but just among 40% of Americans. (When looking at the averages I see that Trump is hitting a ceiling at 43%, the 40%-37% seems to be the current American crazification factor.) As for the other Americans, the last poll from CNN today came showing Clinton ahead by 9 points. > > I still will continue to volunteer and contribute to the Clinton campaign as we should **never** remain complacent with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/71 "2017-01-28T01:27:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I remember during the campaign people made various claims about Trump’s “ceiling” being in that range too. It looks like you might have been one of those people, but maybe I’m misreading it: Nope, you are correct there, but that was on august, and based on the polls then. Of course then later the polls did get much closer and there were accurate on the whole when pointing that Clinton would make it over 2% for the whole popular vote. The polls failed in some battleground states. But that is done, what it is important then is to realize that Trump is not on solid footing going forward. I do think that he will do indeed a lot, but he can not help undermining his own message and make problems that could be small in nature to become highly consequential. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/72 "2017-01-28T01:39:31Z")
Trump is so bizarre that he acts like a Rorschach blob for anyone who is dissatisfied with the system. They see in him what they want to see. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/73 "2017-01-28T06:10:23Z")
The 4D chess meme is still alive! > [@Maastricht](#): > > And for the record, [I also predicted Trumps win](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=769358). In September. Heck, guys like Hedges and Chomsky were predicting a Trump-like figure back in the middle of Obama’s first term. I accepted the outcome [in late](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19509498&highlight=Trump+Gore#post19509498) [July.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19506663&highlight=Trump+Gore#post19506663) In the early GOP primaries I thought Trump might be throwing red meat to the far right, the guys tired of RINOs selling them out on immigration. The way he utterly destroyed Jeb! and the Bush family legacy by telling the truth about 9/11 and Iraq in front of hooting GOP audiences was amazing. But then I read up on his background and no, his outlandish behavior is who he is. His ghostwriter will tell you [there is no private Trump.](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all) What you see is what you get. Taking out an ad against the Central Park Five or attacking a gold star family or saying he’d bring back things worse than torture weren’t feints. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > It’s not Trump pursuing a rational strategy; it’s other people pursuing a rational strategy by letting Trump be a ridiculous, narcissistic blowhard. He’s a rodeo clown. While everyone laughs at his latest BS, the right can pursue their usual strategy of defunding, destroying, and selling everything off to the private sector. I’d believe Trump understands what he’s doing if there were a leaked audio recording. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/74 "2017-01-28T13:37:53Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > He’s a rodeo clown. While everyone laughs at his latest BS, the right can pursue their usual strategy of defunding, destroying, and selling everything off to the private sector. I’d believe Trump understands what he’s doing if there were a leaked audio recording. This is a much better analysis. There is an intelligent rational strategy going on. It’s just not Trump who came up with it. The Republicans who are steering the ship are fine letting Trump have his fascist Muslim Registry Fuck the Press tantrums, because the fuck do they care about Muslims or the press? Let him do these shitty outrageous things, fine, and attract the attention, while they implement their hyperconservative agenda behind closed doors. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/75 "2017-01-28T14:49:06Z")
We’re seeing just world thinking again among Trump supporters. Conservatives, especially right wing authoritarians, are more likely to believe in a just world, so it makes sense if Trump supporters believe in it. In a just world, Trump’s success has to be due to his superiority. If we can’t see the superiority, it must be that it’s so superior it’s like magic. Fourth dimensional chess! It can’t be anything but superiority, because people earn the outcomes they get. That’s why it’s a just world, after all. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/76 "2017-01-28T15:12:18Z")
The disloyalist tweets from inside the WH that some of the press are focusing on this morning seem to be an SOS from a ship about to flounder. Sort of like someone kidnapped, put into the trunk of a car, but still able to use their phone to send desperate messages. "I call to you across the abyss of time. My calls become desperate pleas, then screams, then silence. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/77 "2017-01-28T15:13:35Z")
did Thrump use his intelligence briefing materials to alert his Russian connection about who was talking to the ex Brit agent? One was killed, the others are deep in the bowels of a Russian prison now. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/78 "2017-01-28T21:33:40Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > It’s worth noting that one of Trump’s most successful tactics is lying. Right now, the liberal media are busy debunking his claims that illegal immigrants voted in millions and that his inauguration crowd was the largest ever. A month ago he was lying about other things, and a month from now he’ll by lying about something else, and the liberal media will be proudly showing off their intellectual superiority by debunking his lies. By doing so, they play right into his hands, being distracted and distracting their audience from the substantial policies debates that will determine the future of American government. Just calling him a liar is a shallow way of understanding what he does. The more accurate to say he’s a bullshitter: a liar is attempting to affirmatively make you believe something that is not true. A bullshitter blurs the whole distinction between truth and untruth. That’s not a defense; bullshitting is probably worse than lying, since it pretty much denies even the possibility of objective truth and leaves nothing but perceptions and competing narrative frameworks that cannot be objectively judged. Of course, put it that way and it sounds and lot like like the kind of postmodernism that much of the contemporary left embraces; but that’s because it is. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/79 "2017-01-28T22:09:51Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > How does this explain: > > - His piss-poor performance at the debates > - His tirade against the Khan family > - His tirade against Alicia Machado > > What was the long game there? For someone who is intelligent, self-controlled, and good at planning ahead, he fell right into blatantly obvious traps in ways that clearly hurt him. He failed to do any preparation whatsoever for a major televised debate. What was the endgame there, exactly? Did they really clearly hurt him? I’ve seen several right-wing [sources](http://therightstuff.biz/2016/11/28/saul-alinskys-rules-for-radicals/)in recent months making reference to Saul Alinsky’s book _Rules for Radicals_, a book from 1971 offering rules for left-wing activists looking to bring down capitalism. The right-wingers urge, maybe somewhat facetiously, that they now follow the rules themselves as they are on the outside trying to bring down liberal power structures. I don’t know whether Trump has read Alinsky or not, but Trump seems to have grokked some of it. One of the rules is “Push your negatives so hard that they push through and become positives.” Trump groks this. Trading insults with the Khans began looking like an enormous negative for Trump. He kept doing it. And doing it. And doing it. It turned into a positive. Republicans got the message that Trump is a fighter who will never back down, no matter how much he is assailed by the media, the Democrats, or even his own party. Republicans are fed up with their own leaders bowing down and giving in. They liked the fact that Trump refused to back down, apologize, or change the subject. Bad debate performances? Trump showed that he didn’t care about historical norms about what can and can’t be said in debates, or about the preferences of the liberal media elite. The Republican base is sick of watching their leaders put norms and manners and political correctness ahead of actually winning in politics. It worked in Trump’s favor. > [@](#): > > Or this new bullshit about the crowd size - you can say this distracts from more substantial issues, but the fact is that the man has spent a week harping on an issue that anyone with eyes can see is fake. He is demolishing his own credibility among anyone but his true believers. Even if this covered up his actual agenda (which it didn’t), this is incredibly poor long-term planning. I think Trump believes that credibility is an old-fashioned concept that doesn’t apply any more. I am absolutely not saying this as a joke; it’s a serious statement about our current political environment. There is no political party, no person, no newspaper or other source that has credibility among 75% of Americans. Perhaps not even among 50%. So you say that Trump has credibility only among his true believers. So what? If no one has more widespread credibility than he does, how does that hurt him? > [@](#): > > Trump was able and willing to lie bigger and play a much more obscene propaganda game than any other candidate. This was a winning strategy. However, pretending that this was some stroke of genius, rather than a confluence of luck and outside factors… I don’t buy it. Why was no Democrat willing to lie bigger and play a much more obscene propaganda campaign? Why was no other Republican? You can say Trump won the presidency by manipulating stupid people, but it takes brains to manipulate stupid people. Trump had the brains to do it; no one else did. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119/80 "2017-01-28T22:14:45Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Just calling him a liar is a shallow way of understanding what he does. The more accurate to say he’s a bullshitter: a liar is attempting to affirmatively make you believe something that is not true. A bullshitter blurs the whole distinction between truth and untruth. > > That’s not a defense; bullshitting is probably worse than lying, since it pretty much denies even the possibility of objective truth and leaves nothing but perceptions and competing narrative frameworks that cannot be objectively judged. > > Of course, put it that way and it sounds and lot like like the kind of postmodernism that much of the contemporary left embraces; but that’s because it is. It reminds me of trying to “debate” some on Facebook, which I refuse to do anymore. They take 30 seconds to post some dribble, you spend minutes or hours posting a well thought out and articulate rebuttal, only for them to reply with some YouTube video. You then spend an hour rebutting the video for them to respond with another video. Chasing Trump’s lies is like that. It is easy for him to lie but so very hard (in terms of comparative effort) to show that he’s lying especially when there are so many people who won’t believe that he lying anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-ive-changed-my-mind-donald-trump-is-pursuing-a-rational-intelligent-strategy/778119.md?page=5)