# So let me get this straight. Han \*never\* shot first? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 11, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505 "2012-02-11T07:06:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/21 "2012-02-11T13:11:17Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Your recollection is good. I don’t have the book but I did find [this](http://gamingtrend.com/forums/off-topic/han-shot-first-the-smoking-gun/?PHPSESSID=b9fd5ee4806e3ba5f39dc57ae4ae5f56;wap2). I do have the original 1976 novelization (paperback, 14th printing: August 1977) and the text you posted is indeed from it, pages 104 & 105. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/22 "2012-02-11T13:17:32Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > I wonder if there will soon be a Raiders of the Lost Ark Special Edition where the guy with the sabre in the streets of Cairo (?) draws a gun and shoots at Indy first, to make that scene send a better message as well. You take that back right now, otherwise I’m sending the Nazis after you. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/23 "2012-02-11T13:25:30Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The Rebel Alliance has always been at war with Eurasia. :spittake: That’s one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while. Good job! So, uh, I take it we’re all not rushing to the theaters to catch _Phantom Menace_ in 3d? ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/24 "2012-02-11T13:48:58Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > … and when it had faded, all that remained of the unctuous alien was a smoking, slimy spot on the stone floor. … wow, blasters are rather much more powerful in the books, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/25 "2012-02-11T13:56:16Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Good job the bad guys don’t have a planet killing laser or something then. Haven’t you heard? [Alderaan shot first.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQyd9tEDhSc) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/26 "2012-02-11T14:23:33Z")
In fairness, I’d like to point out that the biggest goof in the movie was only in the movie: > [@George Lucas in the novel Star Wars](#): > > “Fast ship? You mean you’ve never _heard_ of the _Millenium Falcon?_?” > > Kenobi appeared amused “Should I?” > > “It’s the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve standard timeparts!” Solo told him indignantly. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/27 "2012-02-11T15:25:50Z")
I’m reminded of the behind the scenes tales of the making of “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,” in which Gene Roddenberry was effectively shunted out of any decision making because his ideas were flatly insane. Curiously, though, they were sort of similar to Lucas’s in that Roddenberry would insist on things that were simply, and obviously, not true. Famously, he didn’t like the movie’s violence and at one point was insisting that Starfleet “wasn’t a military organization” in any way. When it was pointed out to him that the Starfleet he created had a military heirarchy, fought in wars, used weapons, used military terms for everything, and even named its main-setting ship after a famous U.S. Navy vessel, Roddenberry’s response was simple cognitive dissonance; nope, nope, not true, none of that’s true. Nothing military about it. I mean, if Lucas is actually claiming Greedo shot first, he’s just not telling the truth; it’s not a debatable issue. However, I can’t say for sure if he’s lying, or if he’s actually made himself believe it. A grown man isn’t going to be the same person at 68 as he was at 33. Lucas has a different worldview, and for better or worse he’s going to look at the stuff he did at 33 and think he was wrong. Steven Spielberg quite famously has said, on many occasions, that his decision to have Richard Dreyfuss go away with the aliens in “Close Encounter of the Third Kind” is now absolutely baffling to him; now, as a man who has raised children, he doesn’t understand how he could have had his protagonist abandon his family. But he’s a different person now, so that’s fine, and thankfully he hasn’t edited the movie to change the ending. As we age we change our opinions on things, but you’re supposed to be accepting of the fact that you were a different person when you were younger. I guess Lucas can’t accept that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/28 "2012-02-11T15:43:01Z")
See, I’m not sure it was Lucas’s decision in the first place. He had a lot of help writing this stuff. Not in the form of ghostwriters, but in the form of bouncing ideas off of people. I don’t think even early Lucas understood enough to know why Han should shoot first. Someone just told him it made the scene look good, and he trusted them. In fact, he’s said that his ex-wife was in charge of editing, and now he’s blaming the mistake on editing. Hmm… ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/29 "2012-02-11T15:44:25Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Haven’t you heard? [Alderaan shot first.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQyd9tEDhSc) I have it on good authority that Alderaan is peaceful and has no weapons. Either way, they are certainly peaceful now. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/30 "2012-02-11T15:58:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In fairness, I’d like to point out that the biggest goof in the movie was only in the movie: I’m willing to bet that was Allan Dean Foster’s correction. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/31 "2012-02-11T18:14:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > In fairness, I’d like to point out that the biggest goof in the movie was only in the movie: What goof? Lucas has explained the parsec line. Apparently it has something to do with hyperspace navigation. In the commentary for Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope DVD, George Lucas mentions that \*the parsecs are due to the Millennium Falcon’s advanced navigational computer rather than its engines, so the navicomputer would calculate much faster routes than other ships could. \* So saying the Falcon made the Kessel run in twelve parsecs is perfectly congruent… _from a certain point of view._ :rolleyes: “Travelling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, boy…" ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/32 "2012-02-11T18:23:05Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Good job the bad guys don’t have a planet killing laser or something then. > > IIRC, Lucas is on record saying he hates that scene, saying something like it was “too brutal”. In all fairness to the ROTA scene, it called for an elaborate fight, but Harrison Ford was not feeling well that day and he improvised with the gun and just shot the fella. Spielberg, the director, loved it. Lucas, who wrote it, hates any alteration in his scripts was furious, but Spielberg talked him down and told him it was great. Which it was. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/33 "2012-02-11T18:27:28Z")
The funny thing is that I’d mentioned ‘just shooting someone’ to friends before the movie was made. When I saw ROTA I thought, ‘Hey! They stole that from me!’ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/34 "2012-02-11T19:11:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m willing to bet that was Allan Dean Foster’s correction. Yes, it’s “parsecs” in the script. Also, in earlier drafts of the script, there’s a scene where Han rifles through Luke and Ben’s stuff looking for something of value to steal, as they are asleep in the Falcon after leaving Mos Eisley. Han had an interesting character arc, originally - he went from being entirely mercenary to developing a sense of honour. Bit by bit it is whittled away, until he’s an unambiguous hero from start to finish. They could call the story of this revisionism _The Writer and the Lost Arc_. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/35 "2012-02-11T21:46:19Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > …IIRC, Lucas is on record saying he hates that scene, saying something like it was “too brutal”. And melting faces is OK? Indiana doesn’t fight fair, just watch his slug-match around the flying wing. More likely is that the scene as shot wasn’t in the script and Lucas hates improvisation. Add to that his apparent need to have his characters be either total saints or unambiguous devils. He’s just not going to ever be happy with his movies. This whole farce is ironic because Lucas has turned to the Dark Side. He has total control now, and it has consumed him. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/36 "2012-02-11T22:47:09Z")
I can’t wait for the version where Han doesn’t shoot at all and Greedo just gets killed by his own show ricocheting back at him. Just to see the heads exploding (not Greedo’s, the fanbase). ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/37 "2012-02-11T22:56:50Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > And melting faces is OK? Indiana doesn’t fight fair, just watch his slug-match around the flying wing. More likely is that the scene as shot wasn’t in the script and Lucas hates improvisation. Add to that his apparent need to have his characters be either total saints or unambiguous devils. He’s just not going to ever be happy with his movies. > > This whole farce is ironic because Lucas has turned to the Dark Side. He has total control now, and it has consumed him. _He’s more machine now than man; twisted and evil._ 😃 I wonder how Lucas might “fix” Key Largo (1948). For those who are unfamiliar (spoilers to follow), a bunch of gangsters are holding a group of people hostage in a hotel in Key West. Towards the end, the gangsters force Frank (Humprey Bogart) to pilot a motor boat to Cuba. Once underway, Frank uses the boat’s engines to cause one of the gangsters to fall overboard (after asking him to check the prop for kelp) and then shoots the only other one (who is seasick) presently above decks. Finally, only Frank (Bogart) and Rocco (E.G. Robinson) remain. Frank creates an ambush lying over a hatch looking down on the passage way to the below decks, waiting for Rocco to come out. Rocco tries to negotiate, trying to get Frank to reveal his whereabouts but Frank stays mute. He offers Frank a share of the loot, then all of it. Finally, Rocco pretending he is unarmed slowly comes into view. Frank simply shoots him as soon as he sees him. None of this waiting for him to draw first. Classic film noir. _Nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot._ ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/38 "2012-02-11T23:02:03Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Haven’t you heard? [Alderaan shot first.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQyd9tEDhSc) So, the rebel scum really are the bad guys, interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/39 "2012-02-11T23:22:15Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > They could call the story of this revisionism _The Writer and the Lost Arc_. I respect your cleverness, but I humbly suggest a slight alteration to _Writer of the Lost Arc_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/40 "2012-02-11T23:27:38Z")
For someone who’s one of the authors of a collaborative work, as all movies are, he’s awfully controlling of the franchise. It’s as if he’s mixed up director and dictator. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505.md?page=3)