# So let me get this straight. Han \*never\* shot first? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 11, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505 "2012-02-11T07:06:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/41 "2012-02-11T23:33:07Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > I can’t wait for the version where Han doesn’t shoot at all and Greedo just gets killed by his own show ricocheting back at him. Just to see the heads exploding (not Greedo’s, the fanbase). \*his own _shot_ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/42 "2012-02-11T23:34:16Z")
I have the original VHS tapes of the first three movies (technically episodes 4, 5, and 6 - he is fucking with us numerically, as Eddie Izzard states), the ones that were released 20+ years ago with no additional scenes, CGI additions, etc. I have held onto them because I am a massive nerd and want to preserve the original in the face of the ongoing revisions. And Han shoots first. Suck it, Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/43 "2012-02-11T23:38:59Z")
I keep those too! I showed ROTJ to my nephew, who is eleven, and he wanted to know why the spirit of Anakin looked old. He didn’t know it had been changed later. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/44 "2012-02-12T04:39:57Z")
I think it was a Fark thread on this where someone noted that, if the problem with the original scene was that close-up shots obscured Greedo’s first shot, why was there also no sound of it? ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/45 "2012-02-12T08:03:18Z")
Greedo’s blaster is equipped with a silencer, duh. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/46 "2012-02-12T08:14:52Z")
I _almost_ can’t believe I’m chiming in on this now, but here goes: The reason it’s important for establishing Han’s character that Greedo never got his shot off was because that was an archtypical movie moment…the Fallacy of the Talking Killer (thank you, Roger Ebert!). “You’re finished, Solo! Jabba is through with you! You’re a dead man walking! No, don’t even try to talk your way out of this, Jabba wants your head on a platter, and that is exactly what I’m going to give him! Ah, it does my bounty hunter soul good, knowing that the universe will be rid of a scumbag like you, never to darken the ARRRRGUURGLLL…” The point is that _Greedo is an idiot,_ completely in over his head against a shrewd survivor like Han. Now if you have Greedo cheerfuly blabbering away, and he _still_ manages to get his shot off, and he **misses** , and _then_ Han finally gets in in his head that this cantina ain’t big enough for the two of them…well, that makes a mess of things. Greedo is still an idiot, but Han is a bigger idiot, and yet Greedo can’t take advantage of that, so the only reason Han walks out of there alive is dumb luck. Turning what was supposed to be a simple, clear separate-the-men-from-the-boys scene into a farce. I dunno. If this were, say, five years ago, I’d say that ol’ George is just stirring the pot again, but what’s the point of coming out with this revelation now? The story has been told; there’s no new fortune to be made out of A New Hope. The superfans aren’t going to accept it, and the normal fans don’t care anymore. What’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/47 "2012-02-12T08:27:12Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > The point is that _Greedo is an idiot,_ completely in over his head against a shrewd survivor like Han. To confuse things further an episode of Clone Wars(canon) reveals Greedo is working for Jabba during the clone wars a full two decades before his fateful meeting with Han. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/48 "2012-02-12T15:18:31Z")
> [@grude](#): > > To confuse things further an episode of Clone Wars(canon) reveals Greedo is working for Jabba during the clone wars a full two decades before his fateful meeting with Han. > > :smack: and is a childhood buddy of Anakin… ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/49 "2012-02-12T15:30:04Z")
It should be noted that using parsecs incorrectly is still vastly superior dialog writing than “12 standard timeparts.” ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/50 "2012-02-12T15:40:22Z")
> [@simster](#): > > and is a childhood buddy of Anakin… Is that really Greedo? I suppose there must be thousands of whatever kind of Alien he is on Tattooine. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/51 "2012-02-12T15:44:39Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > It should be noted that using parsecs incorrectly is still vastly superior dialog writing than “12 standard timeparts.” Yeah, That’s what I was thinking . That is one of the most clunky non-organic terms ever. I have a new appreciation for technobable if that is the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/52 "2012-02-12T15:45:41Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Is that really Greedo? I suppose there must be thousands of whatever kind of Alien he is on Tattooine. I don’t think so, but a deleted scene on the DVD does show Greedo getting in trouble as a kid. “You’ll come to a bad end,” his mother tells him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/53 "2012-02-12T15:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > In a 2012 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Lucas altered his previous statements by announcing that Greedo had always shot first - stating that a combination of bad close-up shots and the audiences’ inaccurate perception of the Han Solo character was what actually caused all the confusion: “The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in Episode IV, what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn’t. It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom. I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.” Sounds like Lucas has started to believe he has Jedi powers. He just waves his hand and says “These are not the droids you’re looking for and Han never shot first.” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/54 "2012-02-12T15:53:51Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > It should be noted that using parsecs incorrectly is still vastly superior dialog writing than “12 standard timeparts.” You have to go easy on Alan Dean Foster. When you consider that he underwent a radical childhood surgery which replaced the Broca’s area of his brain with a nice goose liver pâte, his subsequent career is extraordinary. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/55 "2012-02-12T16:49:59Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Is that really Greedo? I suppose there must be thousands of whatever kind of Alien he is on Tattooine. I won’t subject myself to re-watching it - but it was my impression at the time that it was intended to be greedo - afterall, Lucas was hammering in every reference he could. In the end, with a name like 'Greed’O - how could he be anything but bad and foolish? and Han always shot first - he was a rogue and a scoundrel - aye, he was looking for work in an area known for being a hive of scum and villainy - none were more wretched. He was the smart one - the entire scene was set to show that even cornered he would find an escape - to have a bounty hunter ‘miss’ a head shot that close - whose object was to bring him back to Jabba - makes zero sense in any book. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/56 "2012-02-12T22:06:06Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > I _almost_ can’t believe I’m chiming in on this now, but here goes: > > The reason it’s important for establishing Han’s character that Greedo never got his shot off was because that was an archtypical movie moment…the Fallacy of the Talking Killer (thank you, Roger Ebert!). “You’re finished, Solo! Jabba is through with you! You’re a dead man walking! No, don’t even try to talk your way out of this, Jabba wants your head on a platter, and that is exactly what I’m going to give him! Ah, it does my bounty hunter soul good, knowing that the universe will be rid of a scumbag like you, never to darken the ARRRRGUURGLLL…” The point is that _Greedo is an idiot,_ completely in over his head against a shrewd survivor like Han. Exactly. In the words of Tuco: “If you’re gonna shoot, shoot. Don’t talk” It wouldn’t surprise me if this was a shout out to that scene before Lucas started thinking with his neck waddle. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/57 "2012-02-12T22:28:26Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Yeah, That’s what I was thinking . That is one of the most clunky non-organic terms ever. I have a new appreciation for technobable if that is the alternative. almost as bad as “unobtainium” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/58 "2012-02-13T01:21:42Z")
> [@simster](#): > > In the end, with a name like 'Greed’O - how could he be anything but bad and foolish? How dare you accuse Lucas of giving characters tellingly ridiculous names? 🙂 Like, I’m sure Darth (In)Sidious and Darth Vader(Father) and Stabbo Skewerous are not what you expect… > [@TBG](#): > > almost as bad as “unobtainium” :rolleyes: Unobtanium is a real term in science fiction going way back (like a MacGuffin), but most scripts manage to remove the placeholder before it gets to production. This may be a dumb question, but did Jabba want Han dead or alive? Because he certainly seemed to prefer the latter when he finally gets him. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/59 "2012-02-13T01:47:41Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > This may be a dumb question, but did Jabba want Han dead or alive? Because he certainly seemed to prefer the latter when he finally gets him. In ANH Greedo says he doesn’t care if he takes Han in alive or dead, but he could be bluffing or an idiot. In ESB when Vader is going to test the carbonite chamber on Han, Boba Fett objects that Han is worthless to him dead. Vader offers to pay him Jabba’s bounty personally is Han dies. (Once again in Clone Wars Anakin and a group of jedi put themselves into carbonite to infiltrate a seperatist prison, no objections are aired in the episode before they freeze themselves and everything goes fine afterward. So Anakin personally knows carbonite is safe, unless its only the Bespin facility he is skeptical of.) ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505/60 "2012-02-13T02:30:25Z")
> [@grude](#): > > So Anakin personally knows carbonite is safe, unless its only the Bespin facility he is skeptical of.) IIRC, this is fan-wanked in the book version. Something about the Bespin facility being jury-rigged at the last minute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-let-me-get-this-straight-han-never-shot-first/612505.md?page=4)