# So let's assume the U.S. goes down the toilet bowl - which Anglo country do you move to? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920 "2010-02-22T00:04:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/21 "2010-02-22T15:51:37Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > :mad: > > Ireland is a country too you know. > > We have electricity and everything. You also have Primordial, one of the ass-baddest black/folk/Celtic metal bands anywhere in the world. Oh, and U2, of course. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/22 "2010-02-22T16:02:18Z")
My three options. 1. Canada. Right across the border, and expedited entry for my profession. I’m also pretty good at curling. 2. Australia. Again, expedited entry for my profession; while the unemployment rate for urban planners in the US hovers around 20%, in Australia there’s a shortage. More than enough “points” to get in. 3. Israel. I’m Jewish, so I’m in. Even though it’s not an Anglo country, if the US goes to hell, enough American Jews will be moving there to make it so. They’ll be welcomed with open arms; it’ll more than offset a faster growing Arab/Muslim population in the country. Nobody has mentioned South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/23 "2010-02-22T16:06:10Z")
I’m also not quite following the scenario in which I feel compelled to flee my country because I’m not “exactly going to endear yourself to a billion chinese or indians (much like they don’t exactly endear themselves to many in this country) so you effectively have to go to a place with “your people”.” The idea is just weird – while I understand that some Americans don’t like immigrants, the notion that this is a widespread feeling that would actually cause people problems is just so… odd. Like, oh god! The Irish are moving in to the US! We better leave New York for… London? Short of civil war breaking out between Red and Blue states, I have a hard time seeing how there’d be some huge economic meltdown in the US that wouldn’t seriously affect pretty much every industrialized country. But in any case, I love London, have lived there before, but if I really had to flee the US, I think my short list of places would probably involve Japan (been there a few times and think it is so damned cool), China (I’m rusty on the language, but could get back up to speed), and Cape Town (fairly rough and tumble, but god damn is it beautiful). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/24 "2010-02-22T16:15:08Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > If the US “implodes,” there will be no other country/economy on Earth that will escape the implosion. Therefore, no need to move. Yes, other economies are effected by the US economy, but that doesn’t mean that they follow it exactly. For example, the Australian federal government runs at a surplus, and has zero national debt, so it’s not surprising that, although Australia is similar to the US in many ways, and is closely tied to the US economy, it’s getting through the current world-wide recession reasonably well. Similarly, the economic picture in Canada and in the European Union does not match that in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/25 "2010-02-22T16:28:25Z")
I think I’d move to someplace like Amsterdam. Maybe Austrialia, although I’ve never been. Or I’ll just steal a Zipcar and just roam the wasteland. Because nothing screams post-apocalyptic badass like a Nissan Altima Hybrid names “Antonia”. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/26 "2010-02-22T16:31:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m also not quite following the scenario in which I feel compelled to flee my country because I’m not “exactly going to endear yourself to a billion chinese or indians (much like they don’t exactly endear themselves to many in this country) so you effectively have to go to a place with “your people”.” Yeah, I wouldn’t flee due to demographic changes, if the nation and my well-being remains relatively stable. The ethnic makeup of the United States is constantly evolving, and the most prosperous regions of the country now are the most ethnically diverse. Diversity doesn’t necessarily equal prosperity, but rather, it’s an indicator of it. Poorer or stagnant regions tend to remain demographically static, since there is little influx of new residents. I’m thinking about a deep depression that affects only the US, civil war, or some other situation where my well-being is threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/27 "2010-02-22T16:35:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m also not quite following the scenario in which I feel compelled to flee my country because I’m not “exactly going to endear yourself to a billion chinese or indians (much like they don’t exactly endear themselves to many in this country) so you effectively have to go to a place with “your people”.” The idea is just weird – while I understand that some Americans don’t like immigrants, the notion that this is a widespread feeling that would actually cause people problems is just so… odd. Like, oh god! The Irish are moving in to the US! We better leave New York for… London? I feel the need to post again on this, because my OP was extremely poorly written. The “get out of dodge” condition is that this country basically economically implodes. For whatever reasons, be it debt, crazy partisanship, etc. etc., we just start seeing -10% GDP growth year in, year out. This kind of scenario. The question is: where do you go? The condition is: you have to go to another Anglo country. Why? because for the majority of white americans who cannot speak another language, the Anglo countries would be your only realistic option. You’re not fleeing because of immigrants or something - I’m just asking if you had no other ethnic/linguistic/cultural ties other than Anglo-American ones, you’re probably not going to go to a place where no one speaks your language, hence the restriction to go to other english-speaking lands. If you feel that you can hack it in other foreign lands, then feel free to comment, but I’m more interested in which similarly-situated land would be most insulated from a US implosion. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/28 "2010-02-22T16:36:46Z")
Canada’s at least easy to get to. I’d hate to have to go Down Under as a refugee. To be among “my people,” there’s always Italy. Anglo it’s not, but at least you eat. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/29 "2010-02-22T16:55:25Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > The question is: where do you go? > > The condition is: you have to go to another Anglo country. Why? because for the majority of white americans who cannot speak another language, the Anglo countries would be your only realistic option.. I’m making a decision for myself, but I am limited in my decision because other Americans don’t speak the language that I do. Makes perfect sense. Is it possible for me to decide that I want to go to Anglo Place A, and that all other Americans have to go to Anglo Place B? Because I wouldn’t want a bunch of uncouth, ruffian Red-staters taking over the place I want to go and doing stupid things like disbanding the nationalized health care system. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/30 "2010-02-22T16:59:25Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > You’re not fleeing because of immigrants or something - I’m just asking if you had no other ethnic/linguistic/cultural ties other than Anglo-American ones, you’re probably not going to go to a place where no one speaks your language, hence the restriction to go to other english-speaking lands. If you feel that you can hack it in other foreign lands, then feel free to comment, but I’m more interested in which similarly-situated land would be most insulated from a US implosion. For me, language would be a bit of a consideration. I speak only English fluently, but I know bits and pieces of other languages, so I would not automatically rule out countries like Italy (which I’ve visited) or Japan (which I’ve not visited, apart from a few hours at Osaka airport). For one thing, almost anywhere in the world you will find some people who speak English, and for another, you don’t need a common language for a lot of social interaction: I’ve bought things in shops without being able to exchange a single word with the shop assistant, for example. But for me the number one answer would still be Australia, since I was born there and I have family & friends there. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/31 "2010-02-22T17:32:21Z")
Switzerland probably. My husband is from there and all his family lives there. So we would have help finding a job and a place to live. Plus of course it’s his native language, so that’s a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/32 "2010-02-22T18:14:23Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I think China and India would beg to differ Their economies would be in shambles if ours completely tanks too. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/33 "2010-02-22T18:15:53Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > The situation above doesn’t necessarily warrant moving out of the USA entirely, but maybe to a different part of the States… but assuming that it _does_ warrant moving out of the USA… > … in no particular order (also, mostly not Anglo); > > 1. Canada > 2. Israel > 3. **Sweden** > 4. Switzerland > 5. England > 6. Australia > > All on the list, and only Israel is the one that I’m sure that I could move to, after that I’d probably choose Switzerland, and then it’s a tossup after that. Two feet of snow and 5 degrees F outside. You want to re-think that? If I’m allowed to play this game I’d go with: 1. Malta (best climate, in EU) 2. Australia (g’day mate) 3. Canada (Universal health care, eh?) 4. France (my French sucks, else higher on list) ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/34 "2010-02-22T18:28:40Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Their economies would be in shambles if ours completely tanks too. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/35 "2010-02-22T19:01:19Z")
England, primarily because of the specialized profession I’m in (plus I got my MA there, so that might help a little in job searches). ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/36 "2010-02-23T04:09:12Z")
Britain-I’m very much an Anglophile in all ways. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/37 "2010-02-23T04:28:36Z")
I’m already planning on retiring in Canada; a disinegration of the U.S. earlier would just move up the plan a bit. 'Course then I’ve got to find a job, and that part didn’t work out too well. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/38 "2010-02-23T04:53:27Z")
1. Ireland 2. New Zealand 3. Brazil Basically my “lottery bail-out” list, only with a lot less money. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/39 "2010-02-23T04:59:02Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Britain-I’m very much an Anglophile in all ways. Huh. You support universal health care, and the teaching of evolution in schools? I never would have thought. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920/40 "2010-02-23T05:05:59Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Let’s assume that, in line with [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=553012) the U.S. as a political entity drops a big load and ceases to be a nation where people with majority/social European heritages\*, English-only language skills can thrive instead of being some scrapper-byer in the backwater, poorly-developed plutocracy of America. Wait, are you implying that the U.S. going down the toilet means it becomes a place where there are more people who don’t have European heritages and speak English? Like, if there are more people who are black/Hispanic, it’s gone down the toilet? Or are you saying that if Spanish=national language, and thus English speakers cannot cope? I’d probably go to England since I have a British passport in addition to an American one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-assume-the-u-s-goes-down-the-toilet-bowl-which-anglo-country-do-you-move-to/529920.md?page=3)