# so, let's say I kinda wanna read a comic book **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 31, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598 "2004-03-31T20:06:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/21 "2004-04-01T03:42:18Z")
I will third or fourth (whatever it is now) the recommendation for **Watchmen.** As soon as you get it from the library, drop everything else. It’s simply astonishing. If you like superhero-type stuff, **Kingdom Come** is pretty good, too. ---
**Author:** ![Coulbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Coulbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coulbean)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/22 "2004-04-01T04:54:42Z")
I too have a budding interest in comic books. I’ve always been interested in X-men, since I grew up watching the Saturday morning cartoons. (check those out if you can find any tapes at the video store) The community college I attend offered a class on comics and graphic novels this semester and I took it. So far, I’ve liked everything we’ve read, with the exception of one, but I haven’t finished it yet. \*The Freddie Stories by: Lynda Barry \*American Splendor: The Life and Times of Harvey Pekar by: Harvey Pekar (This one is a love it or hate it kinda book. Harvey Pekar writes about his daily life and gets someone else to draw the pictures.) \*Mause by: Art Speigleman (This is a must-read. It’s the story of Art Speigleman’s father’s survival of the halocaust. He uses cats and mice to represtent the Nazis and the Jews) \*Understanding Comics by: Scott McCloud (I recommend reading this if you want a better understanding of the mechanisms behind the art. Our class really debated over this book, but it did help me understand comics better. I liked it.) \*Palestine by: Joe Sacco (This is the one I don’t really like, but I am only 40 pages into it… it’s hard to read if you ask me) I’ve also recently read: \*Origin: The True Story of Wolverine (Very good if you ask me, but there might be some debate over whether this story should have ever been told… I think they did a good job explaining the character without ruining the mystery) \*The Maxx by:Sam Keith (Check this out for sure. They’re just now releasing whole series collected in volumes. You might remember the MTV cartoon series. The comics are great.) I can’t help with any super hero suggestions (except Origin), but you might like some of the above. Happy reading! ---
**Author:** ![Selkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Selkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selkie)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/23 "2004-04-01T05:03:08Z")
Based on your reply upthread to **Big Bad Voodoo Lou** , you might enjoy some of the Spider-man titles. I suggest starting with the **Ultimate Spiderman** TPBs, which begin with one titled _Power and Responsibility_. J. Michael Straczynski has been doing some work on **Amazing Spider-man** that’s been receiving some great reviews, though I haven’t read it so I can’t comment further. **Marvels** , although not especially “light” in tone (but not particularly grim 'n gritty, either) is a very pretty book that serves as a nice intro to the Marvel universe. Should be readily available through library loan. [to anyone with more DCU knowledge than I have, which is just about everyone who reads comics]: how would Kyle Baker’s run on _Plastic Man_ fit with **jsgoddess** ’s criteria? Or Gail Simone’s _Birds of Prey_? I assume these aren’t in TPB form yet, but I would think they’d be readily available at a comics shop. If you’re in the mood for a thoroughly bizarre, often light-hearted, and completely wonderful, take on superheroes, I highly recommend [the works of David Yurkovich](http://www.sleepinggiantcomics.com/). I personally enjoyed _The Broccoli Agenda_ the best of what I’ve read, but you can’t go wrong with any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/24 "2004-04-01T05:15:04Z")
Thanks for reminding me! Kyle Baker is one of the best cartoonists working today, and he has written several hilarious graphic novels. _The Cowboy Wally Show_, _Why I Hate Saturn_, _You Are Here_, and \*I Die At Midnight \* are all super-funny, entertaining reads, with beautiful art, illustrated like movie storyboards. Nothing to do with superheroes in any of them, but the latter two deal with “secret identities” of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/25 "2004-04-01T13:30:02Z")
I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned the Elfquest Graphic novels. Finest art in comics. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/26 "2004-04-01T13:57:25Z")
**jsgoddess,** though the incomparable Alan Moore has been recommended to you, I don’t think anyone has mentioned the work of his that, for my money anyway, surpasses even his stupendous _Watchmen._ It’s dark and it ain’t for the overly squeamish, but _From Hell_ is just a staggeringly well-crafted and thought-provoking look at the Jack the Ripper murders. Plus if you dig conspiracy postulations, this is nirvana. (This is another one you should have luck finding at the library, btw, especially in the wake of the Johnny Depp movie. Which captured the book about as well as a movie could.) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/27 "2004-04-01T15:08:52Z")
You know, **Watchmen** is fantastic as is most stuff from Alan Moore, but I really would not recommend it to a new comics reader. It’s a might heavy-handed, even for me, and I’ve been reading comics for over 20 years. A lot of the fun of Watchmen is seeing how he turns the superhero genre on its ear, and if you’re unfamiliar with the genre, a lot of the impact is lost. Personally I’d recommend reading it in about a month or two, just to gain some respect for what he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/28 "2004-04-01T19:52:50Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > Personally I’d recommend reading it in about a month or two, just to gain some respect for what he’s done. Dissension in the ranks! Noooo! Don’t you people realize how easily confused I am? Eep! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/29 "2004-04-01T20:08:33Z")
Look at it this way. If I came in and said I’m interested in reading some of the classics of literature, would it make sense for someone to recommend _War And Peace_ as a starting point? ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/30 "2004-04-01T20:23:16Z")
I haven’t actually read them yet, mainly because I don’t have the money to get them, but I have been told that Neil Gaiman’s _Sandman_ graphic novels are worth the read. Since I read and loved Gaiman’s books (_American Gods, Neverwhere, Coraline, Smoke and Mirrors_) I’m pretty sure I will enjoy these when I get around to them. And I just thought they were worth a mention since no one else mentioned them! ---
**Author:** ![Illinois\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Illinois\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illinois_Boy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/31 "2004-04-01T21:45:05Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I will third or fourth (whatever it is now) the recommendation for **Watchmen.** As soon as you get it from the library, drop everything else. It’s simply astonishing. > > If you like superhero-type stuff, **Kingdom Come** is pretty good, too. I will be the one to buck the trend, and advise you to put off reading Watchmen for awhile. I agree that it’s brilliant, but I think you may get more out of it once you are more familiar with comic books and their conventions. Part of the originality and brilliance is in Moore’s skewing (skewering?) of those conventions in a more “real-world” setting. In other words, the story will have more impact once you are a confirmed comic book geek. 🙂 The Ultimate Spider-Man TPB mentioned above is a great way to get into a good current series. It sort of re-tells the classic early Spidey stories in an up-to-date setting. I think Miller’s Batman: Year One is a natural for you. It’s all about, (surprise) Batman’s first year on the job, and makes a great bookend to the aforementioned Dark Knight Returns. It sounds like just the story for you, with it’s emphasis on who would want/need to adopt a secret identity. For something completely different, look for The Adventures of Barry Ween, the ongoing story of a foul-mouthed 11 year old super genius. Very fun, very funny, and surprisingly moving at times, when it deals with the need to hide who you are, and the problems that come with that. One last note: there’s a trend in newer comices to be more serious, and more adult in tone. Unfortunately, that oftenl eads them to be too dark, too slow, and too pretentious. Older comics tend to be a little lighter. Just my opinion. Good luck with the reading, and welcome to the club. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/32 "2004-04-01T21:49:11Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > You know, **Watchmen** is fantastic as is most stuff from Alan Moore, but I really would not recommend it to a new comics reader. It’s a might heavy-handed, even for me, and I’ve been reading comics for over 20 years. A lot of the fun of Watchmen is seeing how he turns the superhero genre on its ear, and if you’re unfamiliar with the genre, a lot of the impact is lost. > > Personally I’d recommend reading it in about a month or two, just to gain some respect for what he’s done. I think the story works splendidly well all by itself, and while it’s textually pretty deep for comic books, comparing it to _War & Peace_ is overstating it a bit, at least in terms of complexity. She could read it right away, enjoy it, and then, after she’s read more deeply into the superhero genre, go back and read it again for it’s satiric touches. It’s the sort of thing that just begs to be read more than once, anyway. I’ll put in another recommendation for _Astro City_, which is sort of like _Watchmen_ by way of Norman Rockwell. It’s got the goofiness of Silver Age comic books, but the characters are emotionally grounded in a very real and empathic way. Whereas _Watchmen_ tackles the idea of “real” superheros from a social/political standpoint, _Astro City_ approaches them from a very personal point of view: family, love, childhood, work, etc. Underneath all the gadgets and superpowers, they’re just people who put their tights on, one leg at a time. _Watchmen_ asks, “What if there were costumed crimefighters in the real world? How would society react to them?” _Astro City_ asks “What if we lived in a society in which costumed crimfighters were an established and accepted fact of life? How would a real person live that sort of life?” They are both equally fascinating approaches to the idea of the superhero. ---
**Author:** ![rackensack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@rackensack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rackensack)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/33 "2004-04-01T22:15:48Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#): > > You know, Watchmen is fantastic as is most stuff from Alan Moore, but I really would not recommend it to a new comics reader. It’s a might heavy-handed, even for me, and I’ve been reading comics for over 20 years. A lot of the fun of Watchmen is seeing how he turns the superhero genre on its ear, and if you’re unfamiliar with the genre, a lot of the impact is lost. > > Personally I’d recommend reading it in about a month or two, just to gain some respect for what he’s done. > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > I think the story works splendidly well all by itself, and while it’s textually pretty deep for comic books, comparing it to _War & Peace_ is overstating it a bit, at least in terms of complexity. She could read it right away, enjoy it, and then, after she’s read more deeply into the superhero genre, go back and read it again for it’s satiric touches. It’s the sort of thing that just begs to be read more than once, anyway. I agree, **Miller** ; I’m no devotee of the medium, and I found _Watchmen_ quite compelling; not just “pretty good for a comic book”, but quite good for any medium. Sure, there are nuances that I’m sure anyone not well-versed in superhero comics would miss (and that I missed), but anyone growing up in mid-to-late-twentieth-century America has surely absorbed enough of the superhero meme through cultural osmosis that it is nuance, and not substance, they might miss in _Watchmen_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/34 "2004-04-01T22:59:53Z")
Just to be clear, when I said “textually deep for a comic book,” I didn’t mean that as a knock on comic books. I meant that it’s ratio of verbiage to graphics is pretty high, but, obviously, not as high as a novel. Relatedly, there is a visual language to comic books that can be quite complex. Alan Moore’s _Promethea_ is like this, where simply understanding which panel follows which is not always immediately obvious, and it takes some familiarity with the tricks of the medium to read it with ease. _Watchmen_ uses the more traditional layout: clearly defined panels that run left to right, top to bottom, usually in a three by three grid with the occasional splash panel. _Promethea_ is much more creative in layout, with panels that, say, weave accross the page like strands of DNA, and often does without frames altogether. For someone who’s never read comics, I think they’d have a lot of trouble making heads or tails of it, just like someone who’d never read any of the classics would have trouble starting with _War & Peace_. _Watchmen_ is thematically deep, and has a complex and convoluted plot, but is no harder to understand than your average well-written novel, even if the reader isn’t familiar with the medium. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/35 "2004-04-02T00:34:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Relatedly, there is a visual language to comic books that can be quite complex. This was something I meant to ask about. Because I am really unused to reading books with pictures of any sort, I wonder about my adaptation to a comic book. Do I look at the picture first, or the text, or is it up to me, or is there a knack to it? I used to read Bloom County every Sunday. Is that all the training I need for “stories with integral pictures”? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/36 "2004-04-02T01:04:41Z")
For learning how to read in this medium, get Scott McCloud’s _Understanding Comics._ There is no better book on the subject. And McCloud’s perceptions can be applied a wide range of subjects outside comics, too. Fascinating reading. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/37 "2004-04-02T01:07:01Z")
It really depends on the situation. Some frames are meant to be taken as a gestalt: it doesn’t matter if you look at one part or the other first, you’re supposed to digest it as a whole. There’s a picture of Bob coming through the door, and a word bubble that says, “Honey, I’m home.” Doesn’t matter which part you “read” first, the idea is, Bob’s just come home, and this is what he says. Other times, a frame my represent an extended passage of time, such as several seconds worth of conversation over one static shot. In this sort of frame, all the “action” is taking place in the text, and the art is more or less a place holder. And sometimes, especially in superhero comics, the text is entirely redundant: “The Mighty Thor delivers a devastating blow!” tucked into the corner of a picture of The Mighty Thor devastating someone. But generally speaking, it’s not something that requires a conscious decision: if the artist is at all competent, it should be mostly automatic. If you’re interested in more about how comics work, check out the above-recommended _Understanding Comics_ by Scott McCloud. It’s a fun and fascinating read, which lays out all the mechanics behind comics, and includes a dash of thier history, too. And it is, itself, a comic book, which further proves his point about the versatility of the medium: in just a few panels, McCloud can lay out some very complex ideas that would take pages to describe using only text. Can’t recommend this book enough. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/38 "2004-04-02T03:51:55Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned the Elfquest Graphic novels. Finest art in comics. Bless your heart, **Bosda** - I always recommend this series, because it really is a beaut, but I thought it might be too far from the “superheroes” thing for the OP. It’s fantasy, but more warrior-honor-quest stuff than floaty faerie-dragon-we-make-hats-out-of-flowers stuff. You’ll find it under “P” for Pini (Wendy & Richard). ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/39 "2004-04-02T04:18:01Z")
Did I miss the obligatory **Sandman** recommendation while scanning the thread? Though not a ‘superhero’ comic it’s very very deep and a great read. **Watchmen** is also very great. Tough to read though. **Batman:the Dark Knight Returns** Not as good as the first two but still enjoyable. I am an outsider in the world of comics so I have only read the highly recommended ones and those three are the best I’ve read. Ones I’d say steer away from (that are called classics for some unknown reason) **Preacher** yeah let’s have brains splatter everywhere and call it deep just b/c it mentions god. I picked it up b/c of all the comparisons to Sandman but it’s like the anti-Sandman. What a waste of time and money. **Grendel:War Child** it might be a good story but it has ‘kaboom’ ‘crash’ ‘boom’ every third panel and I just couldn’t get past that call me shallow if you want. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598/40 "2004-04-02T04:43:37Z")
Wow, I’m sorry I was out of town when this started. Let me go on record as saying _Watchmen_ is **not** where a new reader needs to start. It’s a deconstructionist (whoo, big word… ) look at Superheroes… and in my view, if you want to enjoy deconstructing something, you have to be familiar with how its constructed. It is also not humorous in tone in the slightest. Still, it is a very good read, particularly later on in one’s comic career. **jsgoddess** , the X-Men book you listed the details for as as good a place as any to start with the X-Men continuity. Someone else mentioned _Justice League International_ … excellent humor-themed book. I’ve also noticed that Marvel has just re-launched _Alpha Flight_, a book about a team of Canadian Superheroes, and it seems to be heading in the humorous direction of _Justice League International_. If you hurry to a local comic store, you may yet find issue #1. Also, a piece of general advice : befriend a local comic book geek, and borrow some trade paperbacks, or even regular issues. Get an idea of which characters you enjoy most. That’ll help you focus … Trade Paperbacks have been plentiful in recent years… the two major comic companies seem to be reprinting almost every book they do in Trade format … so once you decide some favorite characters, it should be easy to find related TPBs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lets-say-i-kinda-wanna-read-a-comic-book/237598.md?page=3)