# So... letter from the ex and annoyance. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045 "2002-07-21T03:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/1 "2002-07-21T03:14:21Z")
It’s bad enough the e-mail I got from a “friend.” Now the ex has caught wind of the pending small claims court case and has e-mailed me. I have removed his name as well as the last name of the former “friends.” > [@](#): > > Mr. Stark, > I am writing to respond to the allegations of a civil action in small > claims court, for which I have not received a summons yet, but about which I have heard much from every corner it seems. > Our personal matters aside, I wish to address only the legal matters pertaining to this suit. > My understanding is that you seek re-imbursment for the deposit, half of which was legally mine, and three-quarters of which I paid. I can prove through cancelled checks and bank records that I made the payments on the deposit as per our agreement with Mr. Ashland, and that there were no deposits in our mutual account at those times attributed to you. In any event, you would only be entitled to HALF of the deposit amount. > However, after some consideration, I have decided that I am not going to sit idly by while you once again use me and take me for even more money than you already have, all with an air of indignant self-righteousness. You claim I have responsibilities to you-- you forget that you too have had responsibilities to me which you have not fulfilled. I will remind you of them here. > I am legally entitled to HALF of the utilities bills, including local > and long distance, electricity, internet, dish network, and cable, in > every instance in which I paid those bills entirely. I have billing > statements, cancelled checks, and electronic records proving that I paid your bills for the last year, while you were legally obligated to put up your half. If you dispute that you were legally obligated to pay them, I will remind you of your testimony to the Social Security Administration on your applications and in person in which you stated that I was NOT supporting you and that you owed me the money I was providing for you to keep the bills paid. > Secondly, in every instance in which I paid the rent in full, which is > often, you owe me for half of it, including half of late fees. I have > documentation for these things, including cancelled checks with my signature and account statements. > There are a number of expenses for which there is not adequate > documentation to prove in court, but just sticking with what I can > absolutely prove, the total begins to rise into the thousands of > dollars. > If I receive a summons to small claims court I WILL file a countersuit immediately. I have never had any desire to take you to task for the money you owe me because I have known how much that would hurt you. However, if you insist on causing me further distress and harm, I will answer you in court and I will not pull punches. > I paid your bills for months on end Kirk. And you testified before a federal agency that you were responsible for your half of those bills. I encourage you to DROP this suit immediately. I have no desire whatsoever to go through this, but I will not let you walk all over me again and again. Just to make myself clear, if you take me to court, I WILL file a counter-suit against you, and I have more than adequate legal grounds and proof to win my claim, regarless of the outcome of your claim. You will more than likely end up owing ME money. So stop while you are ahead, and drop this vindictive and selfish course of action. > I am forwarding this to the {the former friends} since you have already chosen to involve them in this, so that there is an adequate record of what I have said to you. > Sincerely, > > {the ex} My response: > [@](#): > > Dear {ex}: > > ``` > I just realized something. You’ve never had to take responsibility for anything where money is concerned. > You ran up your credit cards and your grandparents had to bail you out. > Your student loans were taken care of by your grandparents. > Your cars were bought by your grandparents. > They even got you out of the relationship by giving you money and co-signing for your apartment. > > You haven’t had to be responsible. They’ve always bailed you out. > Now I am holding you responsible for what you chose not to do, even though it was your legal obligation. Are your grandparents going to be subject to that as well? > I have to laugh when I realize that for all your maturity and intellectual skill, you have always been financially saved by them. You’ve never had to be responsible with money because you’ve always had a safety net. > Your credit card is already in collection. You stressed to me how important it was, and poof, it is already gone. > My account has not been in the negative. Yours was immediately negative because you cannot manage money. The problem was never mine. It was because you didn’t keep track of money and had poor communication skills when it came to discussing it with me. > You often blamed me. You said with the money you made you would be just fine without me. How interesting that you’ve always lived beyond your means and had to be bailed out. I became a convenient target to blame. > I am not saying that I did not cause problems and make mistakes. Yet would they have been such problems if you had communicated? We’ll never really know. > We were married. I will bring that up before the court. I have proof of the invitation and the wedding pictures. What you did was no different that what any other spouse would do in the event of such dire circumstances. You will not win on a counterclaim, and I will not drop the suit. > I paid the entire security deposit. I paid $200 and worked off the rest. > Being vindictive would involve other things I will not do. This is establishing equity and a just outcome. > I am very sorry for you that you in abandoning me and your promises also forget what a marriage is and was. You also forget what I did. I pity you, bitter man. > The {former friends} chose to be as fickle as you. Mr. Ashland and my friends are not fickle and are quite observant. > Live in your lies and watch them tumble down, Mr. Andrews. I will no longer be a party to your games, control issues, or manipulations. > > ``` > > Regards, > > Kirk James Stark Now he has to threaten me for expecting him to take responsibility for what he did or did not do. If there was gay marriage that was legal and binding, he would have no wiggle room to do this to me. Now he wants a knock down, dragout if I go for what I am owed. Isn’t love grand? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/2 "2002-07-21T03:27:47Z")
Gee Hastur, I know that relationship breakdowns can be messy, especially when there is money and property involved, but I don’t think I need to read all the grizzly details on a messageboard. I understand that you need to rant, but if you’re expecting some sort of affirmation about the righteousness of your stance, then I think you just \*might \* be in the wrong place. I dunno, it just seems very tacky to me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/3 "2002-07-21T03:30:35Z")
I am very frustrated and his attempt to say that I should repay him for the time during when we were married while I was incapacitated and trying to get on disability just hurts and galls me. ---
**Author:** ![Nevermind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@Nevermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nevermind)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/4 "2002-07-21T03:31:35Z")
I feel funny commenting on this cause it feels like it is none of my business, but here we are! Why do you want to drag this out in court when it seems clear that you both probably owe each other something and it all will probalby cancel out. If what he says is true, or even half of it, the fact that grandma always bails him out won’t mean POO in court if that is the kind of arrangement he and his g parents agreed to. I’m sorry --you sound like you got burned, but come across as being bitter and spiteful. IMHO. Also, be careful what you write in here, since it can be used against you. ---
**Author:** ![Nevermind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@Nevermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nevermind)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/5 "2002-07-21T03:34:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\*I am very frustrated and his attempt to say that I should repay him for the time during when we were married while I was incapacitated and trying to get on disability just hurts and galls me. \*\* Cut him off, then, if you don’t like the way he treats you and the relationship is over! You’ll never get him to see things your way. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/6 "2002-07-21T03:38:51Z")
Um, I’m just curious. Seeing as you guys were married, wouldn’t the damage depost be considered a communial expense like the utilities and rent and stuff? IANAL, but it does sound like yer ex, jerk-face though he may be, might be right about that part. It still sux for you, but maybe you should consult with a lawyer. :eek: Good luck! Breaking up is hard to do. In the past I’ve just always blown off monies owed to me by exes (and yes, it has been thousands of $$) just to be done with them. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/7 "2002-07-21T03:44:23Z")
**Hastur** , I really feel for you, and I know you’re having a hard time, but since nobody else is willing to be honest with you, I feel I should. A. You need to stop posting these e-mails you get. Frankly, they make you look bad. B. You were never married. Sorry, I know you feel you were, but you and Adam were two guys, and two guys cannot be legally married in the US. As far as the courts are concerned, this is a roommate dispute, nothing more. Bringing up the invitation and wedding pictures means nothing==you were never married in any legal sense. C. You need to move on. By the way you post, it sounds like the bitterness you display online is alienating all your real-life friends, a bad strategy for someone in your position. Is there any way you can get Adam to agree to a binding arbitration? That might be your best bet. Good luck in your new life. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/8 "2002-07-21T03:51:08Z")
Bitterness? Bitterness is expecting that he will take care of his obligations and not screw me over in the process of abandoning them? Then colour me bitter. ---
**Author:** ![Sanscour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Sanscour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanscour)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/9 "2002-07-21T03:56:56Z")
**Hastur** Speaking strictly on the grounds that you might take your ex to small claims over this, my suggestion would be that you not write any more letters, especially one like the one you just wrote. Whatever you right to this guy he might take to court with him, and that letter does not make you look good at all. Stick to the facts about who owes what. Also be sure to bring proof. If you don’t have receipts, voided checks or anything of that nature to prove what you claim, you won’t get far. Sanscour ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/10 "2002-07-21T04:43:24Z")
Also, if it’s going to court, posting here just might not be a good idea-just to be on the safe side. Or am I being paranoid. Seriously, don’t contact him at all. I think everyone else said it best-drop contact, don’t post all the nitty gritty details. Otherwise, you run the risk of dragging everything else down with it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/11 "2002-07-21T04:55:36Z")
Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/12 "2002-07-21T05:13:24Z")
I’m glad that you see it. **Hastur** , I like you a great deal and I hope you see better days very soon. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/13 "2002-07-21T05:15:51Z")
Thank you. I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Nevermind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/53a042/32.png) [@Nevermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nevermind)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/14 "2002-07-21T15:09:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nevermind \* > \*\*Also, be careful what you write in here, since it can be used against you. \*\* umm…hello? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/15 "2002-07-21T18:37:33Z")
If this is about vindictiveness (or “teaching a lesson” or whatever you want to call it) and not about the true need for the money, you really should drop it. A psychologist might say that this is your way of keeping the relationship going. End it. Move on. By the way, I don’t know where you live but bringing a wedding album to show that you were married is probably a bad idea. I don’t know where you are but in most places you’d probably be the subject of a lot of mockery. Really, it’s time to move on. Haj ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/16 "2002-07-21T23:17:54Z")
You’re angry and sad. That is understandable considering you’ve gone through a divorce, whether or not the state recognizes it. However, IMO, you are subjecting yourself to far more grief than whatever satisfaction you hope to gain from this small claim. Regardless of the outcome, your heart will still be broken. And there’s a real possibility you may end up owing him thousands of dollars. Not exactly the best formula for recovery. My humble advice is to withdraw the small claim, cut off all contact with your ex, and work on healing yourself. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/17 "2002-07-22T02:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > \*\*By the way, I don’t know where you live but bringing a wedding album to show that you were married is probably a bad idea. I don’t know where you are but in most places you’d probably be the subject of a lot of mockery. > \*\* D’you mind not kicking **Hastur** when he’s down? ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/18 "2002-07-22T02:32:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > \*\* > D’you mind not kicking **Hastur** when he’s down? \*\* I don’t think that was “kicking **Hastur** when he’s down,” I think it was a well-intentioned attempt to save him pain. **hajario** is quite right that the wedding album is not going to impress a judge - it’s just going to create a scene that’s going to leave **Hastur** feeling worse than ever. Because no matter how much we might all want things to be different, his marriage is not valid in the eyes of the law, and they _will_ treat this as a roommate situation, not a marriage. If he’s lucky, the judge will be compassionate when he tells him “no dice,” but there are a fair number of uncompassionate judges out there. **Hastur** , please talk to a lawyer before you go to court. Talk to a law student in a legal clinic if you can’t afford to talk to a lawyer. But if your ex’s letter is accurate, you could be setting yourself up for even more hurt. Find out if there’s any chance you could end up having to pay back all your disability benefits to the government before you go down this road. Even if there’s no chance you’ll get stuck for those thousands, think twice before filing. It sounds to me like what you’re really doing is seeking a divorce decree and property division, and that’s just not what you’re going to end up with. If you must have some sort of ceremonial declaration that it’s over, go burn his effigy or something. This isn’t going to make you feel any better when it’s over, and it probably isn’t going to make him feel any worse, either. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/19 "2002-07-22T04:45:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > \*\* > > D’you mind not kicking **Hastur** when he’s down? \*\* D’you mind paying attention? WTF? I was giving the man some advice about a tactic that I thought was going to backfire, like **ENugent** said. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045/20 "2002-07-22T05:03:33Z")
Oh Hastur…what an icky, awful situation. _hug_ Please listen to what everyone is saying here, calm down a moment and try to see what will be best for you. Not for ex, not for what is right, or fair, or owed…but what will be best and healthiest for you. If you desperatly need the money, push on with the suit, but get a lawyer or visit a law clinic to get a handle on what you need to prepare and expect. If you aren’t starving for the cash…walk away. Set it all down and walk away. It hurts, so let it hurt and start healing, stop digging your fingers in the wound and seeing how much blood you can let out. Don’t worry about fair, or owed, or lessons, just worry about you. Take very, very good care of yourself. (I’m partial to spending time in a hot tub with a trashy sci fi novel, but YMMV.) Its not fair or right that your marriage isn’t legally accepted. Its not fair or right that you have no legal protection during your divorce, leaving you vulnerable finatially as well as emotionally. You are owed big time. Give yourself what you are in the power to do so. Long walks, hot showers, good books, fresh fruit, whatever makes you feel simply happy and cared for. But its time to let this go. I know you have the strength to do it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-letter-from-the-ex-and-annoyance/120045.md?page=2)