# So Lou Dobbs employs undocumented illegal alien labor on his estate **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 7, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368 "2010-10-07T16:09:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/1 "2010-10-07T16:09:17Z")
Should we even be remotely surprised by this? > **[Lou Dobbs, American Hypocrite](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite/)** > > While he railed against "illegals," undocumented immigrants tended to his estates and prize horses. A special Nation investigative report. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/2 "2010-10-07T16:32:38Z")
No, we should not be remotely surprised at your misleading title. The article says: > [@](#): > > Salinas said he braved the journey for one reason—because he had the promise of a job on the other end. An old friend of Salinas’s worked as a groom with some of the horses owned by Dobbs, and he had sent word that Salinas could be hired on as a groom at the Vermont stable contracted to care for the Dobbs Group horses. > . > . > . > When Gomez worked for the Vermont-based stable contracted by Lou Dobbs, his wages were $500 per week, and he typically worked sixty-five hours, meaning he was earning only slightly above minimum wage. During shows in which Gomez was caring for the Dobbs Group horses, Dobbs’s daughter would sometimes give him a $100 weekly tip, according to Gomez. But he says he was never paid overtime. Dobbs did not employ the illegal worker. Dobbs contracted with a stable for the care of his horses. Now, considering Dobbs has complained about companies that hire illegal aliens, you may get some traction over the fact that he has patronized such a company… but not very much mileage until you (or someone) shows how much effort Dobbs put into checking the issue and how good the dodge used by the alien to get hired was. But what you cannot do is say Dobbs employed an illegal alien. He contracted with a company to provide a service; he didn’t control that company’s hiring practice. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/3 "2010-10-07T16:39:04Z")
lol > [@](#): > > Dobbs has heaped scorn on the government for using contractors that hire undocumented immigrants. On CNN in 2007, he called private firms that oppose verification requirements for their contractors’ employees “ridiculous.” Yet interviews with several such employees show that Dobbs has been far from vigilant about the status of workers laboring on his own properties. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/4 "2010-10-07T16:48:02Z")
I take **MOIDALIZE** ’s point - Dobbs frequently castigated the government for using contractors that hired illegal aliens yet he himself used a contractor that hired at least one illegal alien - but private citizens don’t tend to have departments devoted to procurement when they go looking for goods and services. In fact, if Dobbs insisted that every company he patronized went through some sort of verification process it would take ages to do anything and we’d all think him even crazier than most of us already do. I vote “meh” with a small pinch of irony on top. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/5 "2010-10-07T16:49:32Z")
Yeah, I’m not outraged or anything. That’s why this is in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/6 "2010-10-07T22:12:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > In fact, if Dobbs insisted that every company he patronized went through some sort of verification process it would take ages to do anything and we’d all think him even crazier than most of us already do. While this is literally true, I think he should be able to insist upon at least companies he contracts with to do this. The US government has a system called [E-Verify](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Verify) that can verify the immigration status of private company’s employers. I don’t know a whole lot about the system, so I could be wrong, but I think it would be totally feasible for Dobbs to insist that a company he contracted with run their employees through E-Verify. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/7 "2010-10-08T01:24:03Z")
[The e-verify system is easy to get around](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/08/17/20100817arizona-illegal-immigrants-aviod-e-verify.html). I have no sympathy for companies that are blatantly exploiting immigrants (like the slaughterhouse depicted in Food Inc. that called immigration to take away their illegals everytime the illegals started to get ideas about unionizing) but I can definitely see how a business that was trying to be legit might end up unknowingly hiring an illegal immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/8 "2010-10-08T01:44:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Dobbs did not employ the illegal worker. Dobbs contracted with a stable for the care of his horses. Get cher Plausible Deniability here! Step right up! Only $10! Arms length transactions only $5! Or the full Captain Renault Gambit - $20 plus you keep your winnings! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/9 "2010-10-08T02:35:35Z")
Dobbs had “illegals” working on his property when he opposed such a thing. Like Meg Whitman, Dobbs is really smart and really busy and really rich and that makes it okay. Rules and values and scolding just do not apply to smart, busy and rich Republicans. The whole point of complaining about illegals is not to actually throw them out of the houses and business of rich and busy Republicans, but to appeal to the resentment of people who feel that they are more entitled than “illegal” people and to make Democrats expend time and resources defending notions of human rights in a rational manner to people who have had their irrational prejudices stoked. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/10 "2010-10-08T05:33:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I take **MOIDALIZE** ’s point - Dobbs frequently castigated the government for using contractors that hired illegal aliens yet he himself used a contractor that hired at least one illegal alien - but private citizens don’t tend to have departments devoted to procurement when they go looking for goods and services. Yes, but I’d be willing to bet that Dobbs has fewer contrators working for him than does the federal government. Perhaps signifigantly so. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/11 "2010-10-08T08:51:31Z")
It was amusing in a pathetic way to watch Dobbs dance around his hypocrisy, and i liked the bit where he cries that people are mean to his daughter when he’s got caught with his hand in the cookiejar. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/12 "2010-10-08T11:12:28Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Should we even be remotely surprised by this? > > [http://www.thenation.com/article/155209/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite?page=0,0](http://www.thenation.com/article/155209/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite?page=0,0) Kinda makin a bit of a long stretch, there, aren’t we? “Ha! we finally caught him! He drives right by the house of a guy that has a cousin whose wife is the daughter of an illegal immigrant! And he has the nerve to complain of illegals!” Much of the illegal immigrant hassle centers on who is responsible for hiring, as well as controls in place to hire illegal immigrants. I’m sure, when he takes a cab or anything, he doesn’t insist on seeing a green card or a birth certificate.It’s not his job, as it is the job of those who actually hire. I bet you don’t only patronize people that agree with you, politically, either. Should I be surprised at that? Do you consider yourself a hypocrite, like Dobbs? Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/13 "2010-10-08T14:29:42Z")
**handsomeharry** must have Lou Dobbs posters blanketing his bedroom walls. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/14 "2010-10-08T19:10:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, we should not be remotely surprised at your misleading title. > > The article says: > > > [@](#): > > > > Salinas said he braved the journey for one reason—because he had the promise of a job on the other end. An old friend of Salinas’s worked as a groom with some of the horses owned by Dobbs, and he had sent word that Salinas could be hired on as a groom at the Vermont stable contracted to care for the Dobbs Group horses. > > . > > . > > . > > When Gomez worked for the Vermont-based stable contracted by Lou Dobbs, his wages were $500 per week, and he typically worked sixty-five hours, meaning he was earning only slightly above minimum wage. During shows in which Gomez was caring for the Dobbs Group horses, Dobbs’s daughter would sometimes give him a $100 weekly tip, according to Gomez. But he says he was never paid overtime. > > Dobbs did not employ the illegal worker. Dobbs contracted with a stable for the care of his horses. > > Now, considering Dobbs has complained about companies that hire illegal aliens, you may get some traction over the fact that he has patronized such a company… but not very much mileage until you (or someone) shows how much effort Dobbs put into checking the issue and how good the dodge used by the alien to get hired was. > > But what you cannot do is say Dobbs employed an illegal alien. He contracted with a company to provide a service; he didn’t control that company’s hiring practice. So, does this mean that BP is off the hook? Whew! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/15 "2010-10-08T19:27:36Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Should we even be remotely surprised by this? > > [http://www.thenation.com/article/155209/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite?page=0,0](http://www.thenation.com/article/155209/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite?page=0,0) Not any more than I am when I hear of an anti-gay right winger getting outed. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/16 "2010-10-08T19:34:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But what you cannot do is say Dobbs employed an illegal alien. He contracted with a company to provide a service; he didn’t control that company’s hiring practice. Did he attempt to verify that the company he contracted had hiring policies he approved of? As a former horse owner, I can assure you that undocumented grooms and stable guys are about as rare as undocumented housekeepers. I get to be holier than Dobbs because I know that the woman who owned the stable where we kept the horse only employed legal workers, and in fact was sponsoring them. And they weren’t even on my land (I wish.) Would you give him the same break if it turned out the contractor was hiring 12 year old kids for the work? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/17 "2010-10-09T14:52:24Z")
I saw the interview. Dobbs is tap dancing furiously away from the notion that HE should be responsible for verifying that a contractor is using or not using illegals. The real world difficulty in doing this for average business owners is significant. Dobbs is not really on my radar (at all) but it is my understanding that this is essentially the duty he imputes to business owners as an obligation to perform to control illegal immigration. His “ees not my yob” response is pretty weak given his stance that this due diligence needs to be performed… by someone… but apparently not by him. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/18 "2010-10-09T20:03:24Z")
I’m no fan of Lou Dobbs. But I gotta say, is this really a big deal? So he contracted with some company to maintain his horses or something, and they hired some illegal aliens. Am I responsible for the immigration status of the busboys when I go out to a restaurant? Is Lou Dobbs? \*\*astro \*\*says that his “not my job” response is weak, but I really don’t think it’s Dobbs’s job. It’s certainly his job to verify the immigration status of anyone he himself employs, but I can’t see that he’s required to look into the verification practices of every company with which he does business. If I had to do that, my life would come to a grinding halt. And I’m sure I don’t do as much business with as many companies as Mr. Dobbs. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/19 "2010-10-09T20:58:18Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The whole point of complaining about illegals is not to actually throw them out of the houses and business of rich and busy Republicans, but to appeal to the resentment of people who feel that they are more entitled than “illegal” people… I think it’s simpler than that. Whether I hire an undocumented worker or not, that worker is so deeply entrenched in maintaining my economic system that it’s contradictory, unrealistic and hypocritical to blame him for all the problems in the country. And the great thing about illegals is you don’t have to worry about them so much when the work dries up. They’ll eventually go back to Mexico if there isn’t any work, and return in a jiffy when you need them again. They’re fungible workers. Legal workers complain when you lay them off, and then moon around collecting unemployment, becoming obsolete and unhireable. At worst, the expense of the presence of illegals (emergency rooms, schools, etc.) breaks even with the benefits overall, one of which is not having to see white people pick crops or wash dishes in my favorite restaurant. The only reason to complain about illegals is that they persist in speaking in those crazy, exotic languages in my presence, so it’s harder to tell when they start making terrorist plans. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368/20 "2010-10-09T21:43:43Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > **handsomeharry** must have Lou Dobbs posters blanketing his bedroom walls. I have Lou Dobbs posters blanketing my bedroom walls, sure. Who doesn’t? Best wishes, hh [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-lou-dobbs-employs-undocumented-illegal-alien-labor-on-his-estate/556368.md?page=2)