# So, nobody watches Girls on HBO? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639 "2013-03-11T17:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/41 "2013-03-13T19:54:12Z")
And surely the people who sniff at the backgrounds of the **Girls** cast are equally outraged by the success of Joss Whedon (son and grandson of TV writers) and J. J. Abrams (son of two TV producers). Or is that different somehow? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/42 "2013-03-13T20:07:33Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > Especially when one of them is a New Yorker just a few years outside of Laurie Simmon’s daughters cohort and whose social group consists largely of people in and around NYC who are engaged in creative fields (music, photography, acting, fashion, design). There is humor to be found there, especially among the true believers. **Girls** fails to capture it IMHO. I’ve lived most of my life right outside of NYC. No need to name it, its just The City. Young people going into The City to make it are certainly not new. I know and knew quite a few. Its not a hard concept to “get.” > [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > And surely the people who sniff at the backgrounds of the **Girls** cast are equally outraged by the success of Joss Whedon (son and grandson of TV writers) and J. J. Abrams (son of two TV producers). Or is that different somehow? The backgrounds of the cast never entered into my mind. The characters annoy me. I don’t watch TV to be annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/43 "2013-03-13T20:47:10Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > And surely the people who sniff at the backgrounds of the **Girls** cast are equally outraged by the success of Joss Whedon (son and grandson of TV writers) and J. J. Abrams (son of two TV producers). Or is that different somehow? Do they go around yapping constantly about how special and uniquely talented, edgy and different they are? No? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/44 "2013-03-13T20:55:46Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Do they go around yapping constantly about how special and uniquely talented, edgy and different they are? No? Huh. Cite that Lena Dunham, or any of the other actresses, have actually done this or are you confusing her with the character of Hannah Horvath? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/45 "2013-03-13T21:05:31Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This is an apt link to share… > > [“If people talked about Seinfeld like they talk about Girls”](http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6874239/if-people-talked-about-seinfeld-like-they-talk-about-girls) > > This passage especially: Seinfeld was funny. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/46 "2013-03-13T21:07:38Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Seinfeld was funny. I agree with you, but there many many people that never liked it. I find Girls very funny. Many people (obviously) don’t. Diff’rent Strokes\* for different folks. \*Also funny ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/47 "2013-03-13T22:19:09Z")
I’ve seen this show exactly once. Last night. Inspired to watch it by this thread. Good Lord, what a horrible show, about horrible people, doing horrible, yet trivial, things. More accurately, what a trivial show, about trivial people. Could _anyone_ really care about these characters? ---
**Author:** ![malarkist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@malarkist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malarkist)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/48 "2013-03-13T22:23:21Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > And surely the people who sniff at the backgrounds of the **Girls** cast are equally outraged by the success of Joss Whedon (son and grandson of TV writers) and J. J. Abrams (son of two TV producers). Or is that different somehow? It’s different. Yes, both Whedon and Abrams had an “in” to film and TV, but at least they didn’t write all about themselves on their first shot. I believe Dunham has a bit of creativity, but nowhere near the level of those two. Her self-indulgent self-aggrandisement can’t possibly be revered by her peers as all that cool. I bet the actors on the show are just happy to have a job on a show that makes them look hip, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/49 "2013-03-13T22:46:40Z")
> [@malarkist](#): > > but at least they didn’t write all about themselves on their first shot. Why does this matter? If using your own experiences as a basis for a first work (although this isn’t her first work) is somehow unacceptable, then someone really should have told Harper Lee, Cameron Crowe, and multitudes of other writers before they went to all that trouble. > [@malarkist](#): > > Her self-indulgent self-aggrandisement can’t possibly be revered by her peers as all that cool. I bet the actors on the show are just happy to have a job on a show that makes them look hip, nothing more. Because you’ve spoken to her peers and the actors and thus have a solid basis for this. Good to know. Also, like **Bob Ducca** , I’d like to see an example of this “self-aggrandizement” that Dunham is apparently spewing all over the media. ---
**Author:** ![malarkist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@malarkist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malarkist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/50 "2013-03-14T02:52:37Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > Why does this matter? If using your own experiences as a basis for a first work (although this isn’t her first work) is somehow unacceptable, then someone really should have told Harper Lee, Cameron Crowe, and multitudes of other writers before they went to all that trouble. You’re splitting hairs. I realize this isn’t her first work, I said it was her “first shot”, as in her first shot at the big time. > [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > Because you’ve spoken to her peers and the actors and thus have a solid basis for this. Good to know. Also, like **Bob Ducca** , I’d like to see an example of this “self-aggrandizement” that Dunham is apparently spewing all over the media. Ha, actually I _HAVE_ spoken to her peers :dubious: And I don’t get the sense that you understand the term “self-aggrandizement”. Aside from spots on tv talk shows pushing her self-aggrandizing show, she also doesn’t shut up about it in person. You’ve managed to skip over the part where I said that her work isn’t very creative. Putting it against Lee, Crowe, Abrams and Wheddon is like comparing a portrait of your grandmother to Salvador Dali; sure, there may be skill in painting something you could just take a picture of, but it’s just not as creative as adding all the other interesting things that would otherwise only happen in your mind. I find the show GIRLS about as creative as someone walking around with a video camera shooting their whole lives, and her life just isn’t that interesting. The other characters are, but not her. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/51 "2013-03-14T10:39:59Z")
I tried watching, really I tried. Saw the whole first season and made it about halfway through season 2. The whole thing is a self-indulgent trainwreck. Other examples of extreme self-absorption (eg: Seinfeld) had other things going for it. Girls has nothing but the self-indulgence. It’s dialed up to 11. Actually, the meter shattered into a million pieces during the handsome doctor episode. Seinfeld’s character was rich and famous, so of course hot young things threw themselves at him. There were never prolonged scenes of them sitting in rapt attention to his self-indulgence, though. Quite the opposite; they would typically be disgusted by his narcissism and dump him. See any difference there? > [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This is an apt link to share… > > [“If people talked about Seinfeld like they talk about Girls”](http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6874239/if-people-talked-about-seinfeld-like-they-talk-about-girls) The funniest thing about that link is that the author doesn’t seem to be aware that those criticisms WERE made against Seinfeld. While I’m sure the satirist felt s/he was making a point, unless it was that s/he is a clueless dumbass s/he failed miserably. ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/52 "2013-03-14T11:53:08Z")
> [@malarkist](#): > > It’s different. > > Yes, both Whedon and Abrams had an “in” to film and TV, but at least they didn’t write all about themselves on their first shot. _Buffy_ was entertaining, but not particularly creative. The musical episode was pretty funny though. Abrams’ career is a litany of creatively mediocre productions with the possible exception of _Lost_, which ended up a trainwreck. Disliking _Girls_ is valid, although I happen to enjoy it, but holding those two hacks up as paragons of talent seems ridiculous. I have to wonder why people seem to **hate** _Girls_ rather than just saying “It’s not for me,” and moving on. No one is raging about whatever uninspired material Chuck Lorre has most recently cynically pinched out into prime time viewers’ living rooms, and I guarantee that is less creative than Dunham’s work. edit: > [@EllisDee](#): > > Girls has nothing but the self-indulgence. It’s dialed up to 11. Actually, the meter shattered into a million pieces during the handsome doctor episode. What about the doctor episode (S2E2?) was especially self-indulgent? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/53 "2013-03-14T11:57:55Z")
I don’t hate “Girls.” I actually enjoy watching it. But I hate the types of people that “Girls” portrays. And the more I learn about her, the more I hate Lena Dunham. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/54 "2013-03-14T12:37:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t hate “Girls.” I actually enjoy watching it. But I hate the types of people that “Girls” portrays. And the more I learn about her, the more I hate Lena Dunham. Yeah, this. I didn’t hate “Girls”, I just found it boring an uninteresting. I hated the characters in Girls a whole lot though, which gives me a bad opinion of Lena Dunham since she seems to be playing herself. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/55 "2013-03-14T12:45:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I hate the types of people that “Girls” portrays. And I think that’s why so many people so violently reject the show. They bring their own preconceived hatred of the subjects to it and then say ‘Now impress me.’ Not saying one \*has to \*like the show, but so many of the criticisms sound like people are watching some different show in their heads. None of these characters are championed or ‘lionized’. No one entertains their self-indulgence. Nobody is promoting these people’s lives as anything other than miserable wrecks. And, since we’re comparing to Seinfeld, those characters win a whole lot more than they derserve to. Who on ‘Girls’ wins at anything ever? I’m struggling to think of one victory. I think we’re just at a point, socially, where there isn’t much goodwill towards ‘privileged white people’ and many people bring that baggage to the show. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/56 "2013-03-14T13:41:57Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > _Buffy_ was entertaining, but not particularly creative. The musical episode was pretty funny though. Abrams’ career is a litany of creatively mediocre productions with the possible exception of _Lost_, which ended up a trainwreck. Disliking _Girls_ is valid, although I happen to enjoy it, but holding those two hacks up as paragons of talent seems ridiculous. Okay, I am a fan of Whedon but I do have to ask. The point of Buffy was that it was the girl in the horror flick who is the one who saves the day instead of the guy. Before Buffy, how many did that? And like most long(ish) running shows, certainly Buffy has its ups and downs. That’s more apparent in Abrams’ TV career. I thought Alias was quite good when he was in charge but when he went off to do other things, they didn’t know his vision as well, and it was confusing. What I don’t know is how much of Lost is really Abrams, from what I have read and seen, compared to being Cuse and Lindelof’s show, and they just attached Abrams’ name to it? I mean, at least Alias had an ending and revealed most of the ideas put forth in early seasons. Lost didn’t. Obviously, like what you want! > [@JLRogers](#): > > I have to wonder why people seem to **hate** _Girls_ rather than just saying “It’s not for me,” and moving on. No one is raging about whatever uninspired material Chuck Lorre has most recently cynically pinched out into prime time viewers’ living rooms, and I guarantee that is less creative than Dunham’s work. > > edit: > What about the doctor episode (S2E2?) was especially self-indulgent? Getting back on topic, I’m actually at the point of wondering if I would like this or not. I liked Sex and the City but was never a big Seinfeld fan. I admit I want to like Dunham when I first heard of her because it seems like she was making it in a tough field. But then I found out more about her and while not a turn off, she did have the right things going for her to make it bigger than most. I was also hoping she was a “down to earth” person but apparently not and that bums me out as well. So, I came into this thread to see if I would like it or not and I think I’m more confused! I’m leaning towards not, and since I don’t have HBO and would have to pay for it, I’m probably not going to watch it. vislor ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/57 "2013-03-14T17:20:11Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > And I think that’s why so many people so violently reject the show. They bring their own preconceived hatred of the subjects to it and then say ‘Now impress me.’ > > Not saying one \*has to \*like the show, but so many of the criticisms sound like people are watching some different show in their heads. None of these characters are championed or ‘lionized’. No one entertains their self-indulgence. Nobody is promoting these people’s lives as anything other than miserable wrecks. > > And, since we’re comparing to Seinfeld, those characters win a whole lot more than they derserve to. Who on ‘Girls’ wins at anything ever? I’m struggling to think of one victory. > > I think we’re just at a point, socially, where there isn’t much goodwill towards ‘privileged white people’ and many people bring that baggage to the show. The thing is if you are going to make a show about unlikeable characters there HAS to be another reason to watch the show. Why should anyone care about what happens to the characters on Girls? I didn’t watch Seinfeld because I cared about the lives of the characters, I watched it because it was hilarious. Same with “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia”, nobody watches Archer because they actually care about the secret spy plots. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/58 "2013-03-14T17:43:57Z")
I’m enjoying reading the responses so far. It has occured to me that the show suffers one major fault; the creator is also the leading character and as such, there is a very blured line between where Hannah ends and where Lena begins. I don’t want to fall into the trap of commenting on the kind of person Lena Dunham is without personally meeting her and getting to know her. Certainly third hand information about her is less than flattering at times. I have listened to her podcast interview with Jeff Garlin. If you’ve heard it, you certainly cannot denying that he was smitten with her. I did not hear anything remotely objectionable or assy come out of her mouth. She seemd quite down to earth and pleasantly self-depricating without the hubblebrag element that often accompanies some celebrities attempting to play the “I’m just like you” card. I’ve heard that Craig Ferguson is equally enamoured of her. I’ve not seen his interview with her. Additionally, and to my suprise, I’ve heard that Howard Stern (after having initially made fun of her) has confessed to making too quick a judgement of her. I believe he called her a genius after having watched the show and compared her to Woody Allen. Now, I don’t know if being endorsed by Howard Stern and being compared to Woody Allen is high praise or damnation. I suppose it depends on how you feel about either/both. But it does strike me as interesting that these guys in particular seem to be impressed with her. Which brings me to another question… if it’s true (according to Lena herself and much to her surprise) that her biggest segment of the audience are men in the 50’s, what do you suppose that attraction is attributed to? I have a theory. I think it’s two-fold: 1. She portrays women in their 20’s as the confused and neurotic wrecks that they often are and guys in their 50’s can recall being that age and thinking the same thing but not really understanding it back then and being confused by the whole experience. Looking back now, it all makes sense to them and they feel validated in some way. 2. The male characters in Girls are more likeable than the female characters (comparatively speaking) and they are not the knuckle dragging morons that most sit-coms portray guys to be. 3. …☹ What do you think?.. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/59 "2013-03-14T17:56:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have a theory. I think it’s two-fold: > > 1. She portrays women in their 20’s as the confused and neurotic wrecks that they often are and guys in their 50’s can recall being that age and thinking the same thing but not really understanding it back then and being confused by the whole experience. Looking back now, it all makes sense to them and they feel validated in some way. > 2. The male characters in Girls are more likeable than the female characters (comparatively speaking) and they are not the knuckle dragging morons that most sit-coms portray guys to be. > 3. …☹ > > What do you think?.. I’ve heard that about the demographic as well. I think it’s a combination of the things you’ve listed above - plus the sex/nudity, and plus the fact that HBO skews older in general. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/60 "2013-03-14T18:33:02Z")
The Onion has [spoilers](http://www.theonion.com/articles/next-episode-of-girls-to-feature-lena-dunham-shitt,31661/) for the next episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639.md?page=4)