# So, nobody watches Girls on HBO? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 11, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639 "2013-03-11T17:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/61 "2013-03-14T18:38:04Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > The Onion has [spoilers](http://www.theonion.com/articles/next-episode-of-girls-to-feature-lena-dunham-shitt,31661/) for the next episode. That’s pretty fantastic. > [@](#): > > “When a naked Hannah dribbled hot sauce all over herself in front of the doctor, shit in every corner of the office, cried, became angry with the doctor, had sex with the doctor, finished her burrito, had sex with the doctor again, shit herself again, and then realized who she was really angry at and sexually attracted to was Adam, I just closed my eyes and said, ‘Thank you.’ ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/62 "2013-03-14T18:45:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m enjoying reading the responses so far. It has occured to me that the show suffers one major fault; the creator is also the leading character and as such, there is a very blured line between where Hannah ends and where Lena begins. > > I don’t want to fall into the trap of commenting on the kind of person Lena Dunham is without personally meeting her and getting to know her. Certainly third hand information about her is less than flattering at times. > > I have listened to her podcast interview with Jeff Garlin. If you’ve heard it, you certainly cannot denying that he was smitten with her. I did not hear anything remotely objectionable or assy come out of her mouth. She seemd quite down to earth and pleasantly self-depricating without the hubblebrag element that often accompanies some celebrities attempting to play the “I’m just like you” card. I’ve heard that Craig Ferguson is equally enamoured of her. I’ve not seen his interview with her. Additionally, and to my suprise, I’ve heard that Howard Stern (after having initially made fun of her) has confessed to making too quick a judgement of her. I believe he called her a genius after having watched the show and compared her to Woody Allen. Now, I don’t know if being endorsed by Howard Stern and being compared to Woody Allen is high praise or damnation. I suppose it depends on how you feel about either/both. But it does strike me as interesting that these guys in particular seem to be impressed with her. I have watched the Craig Ferguson interviews with her and she comes off as real to me, whatever that means. I’m still torn about whether or not to watch Girls. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/63 "2013-03-14T20:11:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Which brings me to another question… if it’s true (according to Lena herself and much to her surprise) that her biggest segment of the audience are men in the 50’s, what do you suppose that attraction is attributed to? Baby boomers. The first generation that grew up in middle class America and made it into adulthood without learning from any real struggles. It would make sense that they are enjoying a show that humanizes the new generation of narcissistic young adults. The reason I believe most people don’t like the show (which is also the reason I love it) is because it humanizes narcissists. It doesn’t just mock self-absorbed characters for comedy (like Seinfeld and Always Sunny), but also digs deep into why these characters are so self-absorbed, and all the twisted and disturbing consequences of living that way. Hanna and the rest of the characters pretend to be adults. More accurately, they pretend to be what they think adults are. They have no clue what they are doing, and they suffer for it. However, because they are pretending to know everything, they don’t ask their friends for help. When they face trouble in their relationships, they break them off to maintain the fiction that they know how to handle everything themselves. No one does, but everyone pretends they do, and no one asks for help. Just look at how alone Hanna is in the most recent episode and still doesn’t ask anyone for help. Look at what happens when Adam pretends to be a normal person. I feel bad for Hanna, but I also understand how some people don’t. Her problem are entirely the result of her own selfishness. She’s pretending she’s a better person than she actually is. Now she lost all her friends and has OCD. She got what she deserves, are we happy now? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/64 "2013-03-14T21:13:31Z")
I guess as a 45 year old male I am too young to be a fan. I don’t feel one way or another about the cast. I generally don’t care about someone’s off screen life. If I have no problem with watching something from Tom Cruise or Mel Gibson (and I don’t, the trailer for Oblivion looks promising) I certainly won’t dislike the show because Dunham is full of herself or whatever is supposed to be her flaw. When I was watching it the characters actively annoyed bordering on angered me. Not because they are not good people. I like Seinfeld and Its Always Sunny. After watching them (particularly Mamet’s character) I decided I did not want to spend any time with them. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/65 "2013-03-15T00:06:53Z")
I don’t watch it regularly because we don’t get HBO. But when I have seen episodes I usually get drawn into them which makes me feel as though the show is fairly well written. That said, I’m pretty glad we don’t get HBO, because I do find the show terribly depressing and a fairly accurate representation of gross self-involved people living gross self-involved lives. I saw the episode where Jessa gets married to that douchey Wall Streeter in that awful surprise “ironic” wedding and it was almost uncomfortable for me to watch because her wedding was just so stupid, her husband seriously gross and the obviousness of her mistake in marrying him simply unbearable. The sort of dinginess they capture of being hipstery and/or not fabulously wealthy in NYC just adds to the depressing yucky feeling the show gives me. In fairness, Sex and the City also made me uncomfortable because I thought it was shallow and irritating in a different sort of way. I swear, I don’t hate female-centred or written shows and I can actually appreciate that Girls is engaging…I just don’t want to be engaged in it at all. ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/66 "2013-03-15T10:55:13Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > Okay, I am a fan of Whedon but I do have to ask. The point of Buffy was that it was the girl in the horror flick who is the one who saves the day instead of the guy. Before Buffy, how many did that? And like most long(ish) running shows, certainly Buffy has its ups and downs. > > That’s more apparent in Abrams’ TV career. I thought Alias was quite good when he was in charge but when he went off to do other things, they didn’t know his vision as well, and it was confusing. What I don’t know is how much of Lost is really Abrams, from what I have read and seen, compared to being Cuse and Lindelof’s show, and they just attached Abrams’ name to it? I mean, at least Alias had an ending and revealed most of the ideas put forth in early seasons. Lost didn’t. > > Obviously, like what you want! I enjoyed _Buffy_, but even the potentially original gender role reversal isn’t all that creative in my opinion. It was a good show, just not the masterwork claim. The musical episode might be the lone exception. 😃 _Alias_ was fine. Oh look, a show about an attractive female spy. Oh, and things arne’t as they seem in this show about spies! It was a fun show that I recently learned does not stand up well to a rewatch. Still not all that creative in my opinion. _Lost_ was just ridiculous. By season three it was fairly clear that it was spiralling out of control, and I only kept watching because I enjoy trainwrecks. It was also fun to hate Kate for being just terrible. > [@vislor](#): > > Getting back on topic, I’m actually at the point of wondering if I would like this or not. I liked Sex and the City but was never a big Seinfeld fan. I admit I want to like Dunham when I first heard of her because it seems like she was making it in a tough field. But then I found out more about her and while not a turn off, she did have the right things going for her to make it bigger than most. I was also hoping she was a “down to earth” person but apparently not and that bums me out as well. > > So, I came into this thread to see if I would like it or not and I think I’m more confused! I’m leaning towards not, and since I don’t have HBO and would have to pay for it, I’m probably not going to watch it. > > vislor Ugh. The author is dead. Who cares whether Dunham is “down to earth?” Polanski is a rapist, but that doesn’t mean that his work is any less impressive. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m enjoying reading the responses so far. It has occured to me that the show suffers one major fault; the creator is also the leading character and as such, there is a very blured line between where Hannah ends and where Lena begins. This is a fault that lies not with the show but with those members of the audience who can’t or won’t see the line. I blame the generally unchallenging nature of the bulk of recent programming. When most channels are chock full of “reality” programming it’s no wonder that slackjawed viewers might be confused by the sort of apparently pseudoautobiographical material Dunham has to offer. Let’s hope they never have occasion to watch _Cannibal Holocaust_ or _Man Bites Dog_. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/67 "2013-03-15T11:54:16Z")
I was looking in my magazine basket and saw the EW [cover](http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/01/30/this-weeks-cover-lena-dunham/) from last month. “How Lena Dunham became the voice of a generation.” Its not uncommon to get some backlash from pronouncements like that. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/68 "2013-03-15T12:37:00Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > This is a fault that lies not with the show but with those members of the audience who can’t or won’t see the line. That is a much better way to say it. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/69 "2013-03-15T12:42:26Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > I enjoyed _Buffy_, but even the potentially original gender role reversal isn’t all that creative in my opinion. It was a good show, just not the masterwork claim. The musical episode might be the lone exception. 😃 But . . . but . . . but . . . you can’t even begin to understand Buffy the Musical without at least a season’s worth of episodes that came before it! And you didn’t like Hush? The Body? The Zeppo? Band Candy? Passions? Becoming Parts 1&2? 🙂 No, it was no Firefly ( 😃 ), okay Babylon 5, which is still \*my \*favorite TV show, but it ran long enough to have ups and downs with the baseline, for me, being higher than most shows. > [@JLRogers](#): > > _Alias_ was fine. Oh look, a show about an attractive female spy. Oh, and things arne’t as they seem in this show about spies! It was a fun show that I recently learned does not stand up well to a rewatch. Still not all that creative in my opinion. _Lost_ was just ridiculous. By season three it was fairly clear that it was spiralling out of control, and I only kept watching because I enjoy trainwrecks. It was also fun to hate Kate for being just terrible. Again, different things for people. I think the first two seasons are still very good and well done. It’s when Abrams apparently stepped away, season three, that it lost its focus. When Alias focused on Rumbaldi, I think is when it was the best but that’s me. > [@JLRogers](#): > > Ugh. The author is dead. Who cares whether Dunham is “down to earth?” Polanski is a rapist, but that doesn’t mean that his work is any less impressive. > > This is a fault that lies not with the show but with those members of the audience who can’t or won’t see the line. I blame the generally unchallenging nature of the bulk of recent programming. When most channels are chock full of “reality” programming it’s no wonder that slackjawed viewers might be confused by the sort of apparently pseudoautobiographical material Dunham has to offer. Let’s hope they never have occasion to watch _Cannibal Holocaust_ or _Man Bites Dog_. A bit back on point. I have no problem differentiating between the person and their work. I was merely commenting that I like it better when I like celebrities and they seem “down to earth” rather than not being able to relate to their fans. Tom Cruise, Liam Neeson, and others i can’t think of at the moment can entertain me but I don’t like what I read/hear about their personal lives or opinions. Loach: I got that issue and I think that’s the interview, and the Craig Ferguson ones, that made me think she might be cool. So, if not, that’s a bummer. That’s all I’m saying, really. anu-la1979: I think part of the problem is that I live in the midwest (Des Moines) and I don’t understand the “big city mentality” that so many shows have. It’s like the Cracked article that talked about having a big presentation be the main thing about a person’s job because it’s the (Hollywood) writers big thing! But presentations are rare in my job and not that stress inducing when they are. Again, I thought Sex and the City was interesting as a vague look at what NYC life might be like and wonder if this is another viewpoint of that? vislor ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/70 "2013-03-15T14:09:41Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > Loach: I got that issue and I think that’s the interview, and the Craig Ferguson ones, that made me think she might be cool. So, if not, that’s a bummer. That’s all I’m saying, really. It sounds like Loach only read the cover, so no need to be bummed. That “voice of a generation” tagline is a play off of the famous line from the pilot where Hannah blurts that out after her parents cut her off. Hannah probably believes it, or wants to, but I’m pretty sure Dunham’s intention with that line was to have us all roll our eyes at Hannah right off the bat. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/71 "2013-03-15T18:47:45Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > It sounds like Loach only read the cover, so no need to be bummed. That “voice of a generation” tagline is a play off of the famous line from the pilot where Hannah blurts that out after her parents cut her off. Hannah probably believes it, or wants to, but I’m pretty sure Dunham’s intention with that line was to have us all roll our eyes at Hannah right off the bat. I fell behind and its actually an issue I missed. I have it set to the side and I will be reading it. Maybe I’ll form a good opinion of her. I don’t have a bad opinion of her now. I just don’t like the show. But that cover is a bit off-putting. (I know she didn’t write the cover and may even hate it being applied to her) ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/72 "2013-03-15T19:08:43Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > Ugh. The author is dead. Who cares whether Dunham is “down to earth?” Polanski is a rapist, but that doesn’t mean that his work is any less impressive. > > This is a fault that lies not with the show but with those members of the audience who can’t or won’t see the line. I blame the generally unchallenging nature of the bulk of recent programming. When most channels are chock full of “reality” programming it’s no wonder that slackjawed viewers might be confused by the sort of apparently pseudoautobiographical material Dunham has to offer. Let’s hope they never have occasion to watch _Cannibal Holocaust_ or _Man Bites Dog_. This is the exact tone of self-aggrandizement I adopt when I’m mocking my friends for digging on Girls. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/73 "2013-03-15T19:36:17Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > The reason I believe most people don’t like the show (which is also the reason I love it) is because it humanizes narcissists. It doesn’t just mock self-absorbed characters for comedy (like Seinfeld and Always Sunny), but also digs deep into why these characters are so self-absorbed, and all the twisted and disturbing consequences of living that way. > > Hanna and the rest of the characters pretend to be adults. More accurately, they pretend to be what they think adults are. They have no clue what they are doing, and they suffer for it. However, because they are pretending to know everything, they don’t ask their friends for help. When they face trouble in their relationships, they break them off to maintain the fiction that they know how to handle everything themselves. No one does, but everyone pretends they do, and no one asks for help. Just look at how alone Hanna is in the most recent episode and still doesn’t ask anyone for help. Look at what happens when Adam pretends to be a normal person. This is a spot on analysis and one of the reasons why I watch the show, but it is also one of my frustrations with “Girls”. By keeping their motives so layered, it’s difficult for the viewer to anticipate actions, and in some cases things seem rather arbitrary. And that’s surprising, given how exhaustingly Hanna and other characters seem to over-verbalize their thoughts/rationalizations. Hanna’s newfound OCD fits that pretty well; it’s hard to see this as anything other than a plot convenience, but then again I’m sure there’s detailed internet analysis somewhere pouring over the minutiae of season 1 that lists in exquisite detail how a few scraps of throwaway dialogue conclusively prove that, yes, it was always there. This show–more than any internet darling I’ve watched in the past 8-10 year–depends on that on-line analysis. That’s a pretty thin criticism, and it only marginally detracts from what I think is an excellent show. It’s interesting to see young adults actually living like real young adults rather than pretending to hard knocks in their $3000 a month apartment. And there’s a lot of material in navigating the baffling and often capricious world of “made it” adulthood. But to watch flailing for the sake of flailing can get tedious; here’s hoping to some sort of move forward in the finale (almost certain for Shoshanna and Ray, less so for others). ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/74 "2013-03-16T13:28:10Z")
I watch it… its only a half hour. Maybe its the white, pasty, flabby, tattooed nudity …God I hope not. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/75 "2013-03-16T14:44:56Z")
Food’s disgusting, but at least the portions are small? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/76 "2013-03-17T13:46:51Z")
Ok I read the article. I can see why the line between the artist and the work are blurred. I thought it was full of the same navel gazing that I found boring and annoying. Along with a strong hipster vibe that I can’t stand. She met the interviewer at an animal shelter in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Williamsburg is hipster central to begin with and then you can’t just sit down for an interview, you have to adopt a dog while doing it? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/77 "2013-03-17T16:19:20Z")
(_sotto voce_) “She’s a rescue.” \<_self-satisfied sniff_\> ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/78 "2013-03-17T16:21:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > (_sotto voce_) “She’s a rescue.” \<_self-satisfied sniff_\> Oh you read the article too? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/79 "2013-03-17T19:52:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Oh you read the article too? Nah, it was something Adam Carolla complained about once— i.e., constantly running into people who felt compelled to announce that the pet they were walking was a “rescue.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639/80 "2013-03-17T21:09:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Nah, it was something Adam Carolla complained about once— i.e., constantly running into people who felt compelled to announce that the pet they were walking was a “rescue.” I was joking Bill Burr did a funny bit about it too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nobody-watches-girls-on-hbo/652639.md?page=5)