# So now Loki really wasn't evil...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 4, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195 "2019-01-04T15:49:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/1 "2019-01-04T15:49:00Z")
Marvel has [retconned](https://news.avclub.com/marvel-subtly-retcons-loki-s-supervillain-role-1831460208) The Avengers (2012) to say that Loki really wasn’t evil but that the Mind Stone was actually effecting him as well amplifying his hatred of Thor and Earth.
Kind of a cop out but more evidence (as I have written for a few years now) that a Loki movie is coming (softening the character to make him an more an anti hero). But he’s dead you say? Please. The events of Infinity War are going to be mostly undone this April.
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### Author:  [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/2 "2019-01-04T16:02:04Z")
It would not be the first timer Marvel rehabilitated a bad guy. The Black Widow, Hawkeye, Wonder Man, the Punisher, Sabertooth, and Venom all started out as villains.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/3 "2019-01-04T16:03:59Z")
No, he’s definitely evil. But he’s evil within normal parameters.
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### Author:  [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/4 "2019-01-04T16:05:27Z")
Not a movie but a TV show.
> **[It's Official, Disney Is Bringing a Loki TV Series to Its Streaming Service Too](https://gizmodo.com/its-official-disney-is-bringing-a-loki-tv-series-to-it-1830322223)**
>
> The god of mischief lives! Only on Disney’s new streaming service.
Forgive the messy link. I’m on my phone and can’t format properly.
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### Author:  [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/5 "2019-01-04T16:05:34Z")
> [@Quimby](#):
>
> Marvel has [retconned](https://news.avclub.com/marvel-subtly-retcons-loki-s-supervillain-role-1831460208) The Avengers (2012) to say that Loki really wasn’t evil but that the Mind Stone was actually effecting him as well amplifying his hatred of Thor and Earth.
>
> Kind of a cop out but more evidence (as I have written for a few years now) that a Loki movie is coming (softening the character to make him an more an anti hero). But he’s dead you say? Please. The events of Infinity War are going to be mostly undone this April.
Not his own movie, but his own TV show.
The new Disney streaming service is planning on having Marvel mini-series’ around their MCU characters (starring their on-screen actors) and the two rumored (maybe announced?) are a Loki and Scarlet Witch series.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/6 "2019-01-04T16:08:38Z")
I always appreciated comic movies because unlike the comics proper, they could kill someone really most sincerely dead. And villains stayed villains, and good guys were good.
Now even that distinction is gone. Le sigh.
Is Cap going to be in Hydra now?
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/7 "2019-01-04T16:17:53Z")
There really wasn’t much need, everyone loves him anyway.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/8 "2019-01-04T16:24:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> No, he’s definitely evil. But he’s evil within normal parameters.
Amoral with a wicked sense of humor.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/9 "2019-01-04T16:26:18Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Is Cap going to be in Hydra now?
This is a woosh referring to what Marvel did to him last year, right?
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### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/10 "2019-01-04T16:32:51Z")
In Norse mythology, Loki was always more of a trickster than some malevolent entity.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/11 "2019-01-04T17:09:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> This is a woosh referring to what Marvel did to him last year, right?
Yep!
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/12 "2019-01-04T17:15:47Z")
> [@terentii](#):
>
> In Norse mythology, Loki was always more of a trickster than some malevolent entity.
Indeed, more asshole than villain. He’s the sort that knows he’s a hypocrite, knows everyone ELSE is a hypocrite and delights in showing that off. A trickster god - Loki, Coyote, Anansi et al - should be in a pantheon to be continually showing that not only does the emperor have no clothes but that no one does.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/13 "2019-01-04T19:05:48Z")
> [@terentii](#):
>
> In Norse mythology, Loki was always more of a trickster than some malevolent entity.
I remember being irritated when it was suggested that Black Widow had tricked him into revealing information. Loki is the literal god of tricksters, he should be able to manipulate her like Silly Putty.
I suppose arguably he WAS manipulating her, but his plan was so crazy-convoluted that I’m honestly not sure what exactly it was.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/14 "2019-01-04T22:39:53Z")
This isn’t as out-of-the-blue as the article says. It was set up in the movie.
We saw that Hawkeye was mind controlled. And how did he snap out of it? With a sharp blow to the head.
Who else got a [sharp blow to the head](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ZjnrHR8EA) and then announced he was no longer interested in fighting?
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/15 "2019-01-04T23:56:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> Indeed, more asshole than villain. He’s the sort that knows he’s a hypocrite, knows everyone ELSE is a hypocrite and delights in showing that off. A trickster god - Loki, Coyote, Anansi et al - should be in a pantheon to be continually showing that not only does the emperor have no clothes but that no one does.
Loki in the sagas has some evil aspects. As I recall, it’s he who hands Hod the dart made of mistletoe and aims his throw at Baldur, resulting in Baldur’s death. He also precludes Baldur’s return from the underworld by refusing to mourn Baldur while in disguise as a giantess. That’s a bit more than just trickster Loki at play. IIRC, the death of Baldur heralds the coming of Ragnarök.
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### Author:  [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2019, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/16 "2019-01-05T07:50:15Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#):
>
> Loki in the sagas has some evil aspects. As I recall, it’s he who hands Hod the dart made of mistletoe and aims his throw at Baldur, resulting in Baldur’s death. He also precludes Baldur’s return from the underworld by refusing to mourn Baldur while in disguise as a giantess. That’s a bit more than just trickster Loki at play. IIRC, the death of Baldur heralds the coming of Ragnarök.
He and Heimdall also killed each other at Ragnarok. However, Loki made the deal with the giant who erected Asgard’s walls and then copulated with his horse so he couldn’t marry Freya. He gave Sliepnir, the eight-legged horse that came of this union, to Odin.
Loki cut off Sif’s hair, but restored it and gave Odin his spear and Frey the magical boat.
He helped Thor rescue Mjolnir from the giants. From what I’ve read of Norse mythology, Odin and Thor certainly didn’t mind venturing with him.
I once read an article in _Dragon_ magazine in which the author contended that Loki’s alignment should be chaotic neutral rather than chaotic evil. The author contended Loki was a trickster who only turned evil at Ragnarok, possibly because of his treatment by the other gods.
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### Author:  [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2019, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/17 "2019-01-05T08:11:24Z")
I might add that I prefer Walt Simonson’s version of Loki in the 1980’s _Thor_. Loki was more evil than the entire Trump Administration and a master schemer/magician to boot.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/18 "2019-01-05T10:45:29Z")
Loki in Norse mythology is a trickster and a catalyst - without him there would be no fishing nets, no Thor’s hammer, no Sleipnir, on and on… But he violated all sorts of norms (like changing gender - Loki gave birth to Sleipnir) and was exceedingly good at pissing people off or getting himself into trouble. Which is sort of typical of Tricksters, but he’s a bit more antagonistic than many.
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### Author:  [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/19 "2019-01-05T17:22:15Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#):
>
> He helped Thor rescue Mjolnir from the giants.
[That’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Erymskvi%C3%B0a) always been one of my favorite Norse myths–one of the only laugh-out-loud stories in the rather grim Norse canon.
I like to think that that’s the reason for the Jotun’s line in the first Thor movie: “Run back home, little princess.” And why Loki knew it would set Thor off. (“…Damn.”)
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-loki-really-wasnt-evil/827195/20 "2019-01-05T19:34:27Z")
Loki killed Coulson. Fuck Loki.
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