# So, now the president can order my state how to fly its flags? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066 "2013-09-17T16:43:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/1 "2013-09-17T16:43:28Z")
I work in a state agency, and I just received this email (presumably sent to all state employees): > [@](#): > > Subject: Presidential Order > > Effective Immediately, the President of the United States of America has directed that Federal and State Flags shall be flown at half-staff at all buildings, grounds, and Military Installations of the State of Wisconsin until sunset on September 20, 2013 as a mark of respect for the victims of the senseless acts of violence perpetrated on September 16th, 2013, at the Washington Navy Yard. Yet another sign Obama is trying to something something something … BAD! ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/2 "2013-09-17T17:14:37Z")
I’m not much of one for flag etiquette, but it seems to me that we’re so gung-ho to half-mast them that I’m starting to count it unusual to see a flag at its full height. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/3 "2013-09-17T17:18:36Z")
Here’s the order, according to [www.halfstaff.org](http://www.halfstaff.org): US State FlagsSep 16 US Flags at Half Staff from 9/16/2013 – 9/20/13 By Matt - Comments(0) Honoring the Victims of the Tragedy at the Washington Navy Yard HONORING THE VICTIMS OF THE TRAGEDY AT THE WASHINGTON NAVY YARD ——– BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION As a mark of respect for the victims of the senseless acts of violence perpetrated on September 16, 2013, at the Washington Navy Yard, by the authority vested in me as President of the United States by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby order that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset, September 20, 2013. I also direct that the flag shall be flown at half-staff for the same length of time at all United States embassies, legations, consular offices, and other facilities abroad, including all military facilities and naval vessels and stations. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this sixteenth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand thirteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-eighth. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/4 "2013-09-17T17:28:28Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Yet another sign Obama is trying to something something something … BAD! This can only mean that Obama wants to take away all your flags! I predict the sale of flags will spike now. Obama is the best flag salesman ever. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/5 "2013-09-17T17:32:56Z")
Federal law (4 USC § 7(m) et seq) provides in pertinent part: > [@](#): > > By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a state, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. > . > . > . > Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation. Of course, there’s no actual penalty for disobeying the President. See, e.g., _Holmes v. Wallace_, 407 F. Supp. 493 (Dist. Court, MD Alabama 1976). ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/6 "2013-09-17T17:33:03Z")
The President’s official order only states that flags at federal locations will be lowered. He certainly has that authority. This would leave states and other non-federal government agencies free to make their own choices. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/7 "2013-09-17T17:40:19Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > This can only mean that Obama wants to take away all your flags! > \*\* > I predict the sale of flags will spike now\*\*. Obama is the best flag salesman ever. Bolding mine Gotta move out all the 50-star flags to make room for the new 57s. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/8 "2013-09-17T17:57:01Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > [size=1]Gotta move out all the 50-star flags to make room for the new 57s. United States of Canada or Jesusland? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/9 "2013-09-17T18:01:57Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > . . . I predict the sale of flags will spike now. Obama is the best flag salesman ever. He’s also selling bonds to fund a creationist [Ark Park](http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2013/09/god-moves-in-my.html#more). The Panda’s Thumb website reports that: > [@](#): > > The reason they give for using bonds [in their funding structure change] really is amazing and most amusing. Ken Ham doesn’t mention the failure to raise sufficient donations and investors after trying since 2010, or claim that investors backed out, but rather he claims … drum roll … you will never … that Obamacare is the reason they are using city bonds to help fund the Ark! ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/10 "2013-09-17T18:06:18Z")
First he can’t prove that he’s a real American citizen, then he tries to turn America socialist with his so-called “Obamacare” now this? I say to heck with this guy! C’mon, who’s with me? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/11 "2013-09-17T18:11:38Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Bolding mine > > Gotta move out all the 50-star flags to make room for the new 57s. > [@Sunspace](#): > > United States of Canada or Jesusland? The Republic of Heinz. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/12 "2013-09-17T18:41:07Z")
12 innocent folks die so some can crack jokes. If this forum is going to stoop this low, I think it’s time to rethink my membership. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/13 "2013-09-17T18:43:25Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The Republic of Heinz. Is this a 'John Kerry in '16 prediction? 😃 **racer72** , some laugh, some cry. Deal with reality in whichever way seems best to you. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/14 "2013-09-17T18:46:42Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Is this a 'John Kerry in '16 prediction? 😃 > > **racer72** , some laugh, some cry. Deal with reality in whichever way seems best to you. We already know that a Kerry campaign is about as exciting as ketchup pouring. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/15 "2013-09-17T19:03:17Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > 12 innocent folks die so some can crack jokes. If this forum is going to stoop this low, I think it’s time to rethink my membership. What you didn’t get the memo? Yes, Aaron Alexis specifically went to the Navy Yard to kill 12 people specifically so a few here at this message board can “crack jokes”. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/16 "2013-09-17T19:10:16Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > The President’s official order only states that flags at federal locations will be lowered. Actually, it says, “…the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House _ **and upon all public buildings and grounds** _…”, although I don’t think he has the authority to “order” non-Federal public locations to do so. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/17 "2013-09-17T19:22:00Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Actually, it says, “…the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House _ **and upon all public buildings and grounds** _…”, although I don’t think he has the authority to “order” non-Federal public locations to do so. It says, “…all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels **of the Federal Government** …” It makes no mention of all buildings and facilities everywhere, just Federal ones. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/18 "2013-09-17T19:29:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I work in a state agency, and I just received this email (presumably sent to all state employees): A state flag should not be flown higher than the U.S. flag according to the flag code. If the U.S. flag is being flown at half-mast, so should any other flags be that are displayed with it. Of course, as noted above, there are no penalties for failing to comply. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/19 "2013-09-17T19:43:28Z")
I don’t need some president guy bossing me around. I’ll do what I wish with my flag, like patriotically wear them as jorts. ---
**Author:** ![want2befree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3e96dc/32.png) [@want2befree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/want2befree)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066/20 "2013-09-17T21:06:35Z")
Half-mast is when it is being flown at sea. Half-staff when on land. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-the-president-can-order-my-state-how-to-fly-its-flags/669066.md?page=2)