# So now we're going to "punish" the French **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 22, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454 "2003-04-22T23:50:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/1 "2003-04-22T23:50:03Z")
I’m about ready to turn over leadership of this country to whichever fourth grader in the school across the street finishes his snack first. Is Bush TRYING to become the worst foreign-policy president of all space and time? We’re going to “punish” them. Even though the State Department, the body that carries out foreign policy, says it’s a bad idea. Punish them how, like we did Iraq for not doing things our way? I’ve remained quiet about this stuff up until now. I COULD have been convinced this war was necessary, but not with the circular logic that has been employed by the Bushies. When I click on Yahoo news I shouldn’t find that our country is going to “punish” another. This is ridiculous. No wonder the world thinks we’re morons. Oh yeah, we’re in the Pit. Shit, piss, goat felching, etc… ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/2 "2003-04-22T23:54:25Z")
and ‘link you’ too? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/3 "2003-04-22T23:58:41Z")
[http://www.yahoo.com/s/78662](http://www.yahoo.com/s/78662) ---
**Author:** ![Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fox_in_the_Snow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/4 "2003-04-23T00:02:16Z")
Typicially subtle diplomacy from the Bush Administration. Now watch as it’s equally subtle supporters emerge to claim Saddam bought Chirac off and that the French are all traitors. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/5 "2003-04-23T00:02:51Z")
Broken link. I’m heading out for dinner, will be prepared to be offended afterwards. thanks 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/6 "2003-04-23T00:04:38Z")
US diplomacy has become Bush’s S&M French maid fantasy! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/7 "2003-04-23T00:08:17Z")
I can see the headline now: **US Sticks Giant “Kick Me” Sign On Le Havre While France Is Talking To Germany** ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/8 "2003-04-23T00:35:07Z")
I think they should continue to punish the French the way some stores in my area are punishing the French - all French products are on sale! All that wine and cheese… thirty percent off. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/9 "2003-04-23T01:07:03Z")
Well, they _do_ have weapons of mass destruction you know, plus a lovely countryside, much more hospitable for invading than a desert. I’d recommend August when the cities are undefended. [Insert sarcasm smiley here] ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/10 "2003-04-23T01:11:41Z")
Of course we should punish the French for their perfidy. This is [standard game theory](http://mba.vanderbilt.edu/Mike.Shor/courses/GTheory/docs/Axelrod.html). > [@](#): > > Robert Axelrod was interested in finding a winning strategy for repeated prisoner’s dilemmas games. He conducted a computer tournament where people were invited to submit strategies for playing 200 games of prisoner’s dilemma (Axlerod and Hamilton, 1981). Fourteen game theorists in disciplines such as economics and mathematics submitted entries. These 14, and a totally random strategy, were paired with each other in a round robin tournament. Some of these strategies were highly intricate. But the result of the tournament was that the simplest of all strategies submitted attained the highest average score. This strategy, called TIT FOR TAT by its submitter Anatol Rapoport, had only two rules. On the first move co-operate. ON each succeeding move do what your opponent did the previous move. Thus, TIT FOR TAT was a strategy of co-operation based on reciprocity. By conceptualising reciprocal altruism as a series of prisoner’s dilemmas we can see that TIT FOR TAT might be the Evolutionary Stable Strategy for our reciprocal altruism adaptation. It might even help to explain the evolution of co-operation in a more general way than Trivers’ theory of reciprocal altruism. If TIT FOR TAT works for game theory and for evolution, it ought to work for international relations as well. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/11 "2003-04-23T01:13:00Z")
[They picked a strange time to leak that story.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030422/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_un_inspectors&cid=514&ncid=514) Make sure that we guard the Louvre with some tanks. We don’t want another looting scandal. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/12 "2003-04-23T01:24:53Z")
What happened to our outrage with Germany? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/13 "2003-04-23T01:27:54Z")
Ah-ha all has suddenly become clear, thanks **Gassendi**. It was strange that Blair supported Bush so much. But obviously this was the deal, UK would help US get rid of Iraq, and in return UK will getm US help in taking over France. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/14 "2003-04-23T01:37:33Z")
Maybe France should punish the US. After all, we refused to do what the French wanted. What kind of ally is that? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/15 "2003-04-23T01:47:49Z")
I don’t think they want to punish France so much as blame France. They are attempting to get the public to fixate on Les Frogues so they can float the balloon that, really, most everybody was on our side but dat ol’ debbil France messed it all up. France went around muscling and bullying other countries with their overpowering economic advantages. Bribery, extortion, that sort of thing. Wasn’t a diplomatic boondoggle. It was France. Lot of Muslims in France, you know. And Charles DeGualle was very tall. Lots of tall Muslims, it necessarily follows. Good place for a very tall Muslim to hide out. Not that I’m suggesting anything… And, of course, we still have the maps. They probably haven’t done anything to the roads since '44, so they’ll still be pretty accurate. Iraq took about a week, France should be good for, oh,…lunch? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/16 "2003-04-23T02:05:17Z")
Plus, we all know how quickly the French throw down the weapons when an oppressive foreign regime knocks on the door, so it’s a safe bet. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/17 "2003-04-23T02:29:16Z")
The United States is throwing a temper tantrum because France didn’t let them get their way one particular time. Kind of hypocritical, considering the numerous U.N resolutions the U.S has vetoed. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/18 "2003-04-23T02:33:32Z")
Seems appropriate to me. If somebody fucks me over I don’t invite them to dinner either. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/19 "2003-04-23T02:38:59Z")
The French invented oral sex. What the fuck have the Bulgarians ever done for anybody? (Of course, this innovation may be entirely foreign to GeeDubya. Being a Republican, and all.) ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454/20 "2003-04-23T02:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Seems appropriate to me. If somebody fucks me over I don’t invite them to dinner either. \*\* This is an entirely different situation, and entirely _in_appropriate. The UN is not a dinner party; I’d compare it more to a working environment. I don’t know where _you_ work, but to remain professional and productive, I have to work with people I don’t agree with, even people I don’t like, every day. And I have to do so in a professional, courteous manner. This is no different. To put it simply, if I were to make a public show of trying to “punish” someone I disagreed with in the workplace, I’d be fired in short order. And I think it more than likely that if the Bush Administration continues this isolationist policy, it will have its collective ass canned from the international community. This shit should be comedy, but its really happening. Next, I expect to see Bush in the Oval Office, waggling his tongue at a photo of Chirac. This administration has just regressed from high-school politics to grade-school politics. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-now-were-going-to-punish-the-french/170454.md?page=2)