# So, \[Nugenix\] endorsed by Frank Thomas is a complete scam, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 6, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368 "2018-07-06T06:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CharmaChameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@CharmaChameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CharmaChameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/21 "2018-07-07T03:32:46Z")
If it’s on television, my immediate assumption is that it is a scam. Period. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/22 "2018-07-07T04:29:33Z")
Simple: Seems too good to be true = IS too good to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/23 "2018-07-07T14:45:37Z")
Nugenix can cost from between $70 and $90 for a month’s supply, rather pricey for a supplement which apparently has not undergone any clinical studies (one or more of its ingredients have, but without providing significant evidence that they 1) increase testosterone in the body, and 2) provide symptomatic relief to back the claims made by the supplement maker/marketers). ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/24 "2018-07-07T15:12:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The placebo effect may be there for some people. But then it’s not the ingredients that make the difference, and add in the ‘joining the gym going once and then never coming back’ syndrome it’s not likely to work anyway. > > Even if there is some useful stuff in some of these things I think the actual working out that’s supposed to go along with them is far more important and probably works just as well without the supplements. And that’s a big ‘if’ on them having any useful ingredients in the first place. Does it contain anything that is a stimulant? A lot of pills that claim to help you lose weight, feel better, make your workouts more effective, blah, blah, have caffeine. They have other stuff, and cost $20 a bottle, but they do a tiny bit of good by waking you up for your workout. However, you can buy twice as much caffeine in a bottle of generic No-Doz for less than $2. If you really, truly have a vitamin deficiency, you could feel better after taking a supplement, but it’s doubtful anyone in the US without a medical condition or who is not following a fad diet has a vitamin deficiency, and again, a multivitamin from Walmart costs about $6 a bottle for a 3 month supply. But you should get yourself checked out by a doctor before self-prescribing. 20 years ago, these kinds of pills contained a host of other stimulants and appetite suppressants, that, one by one, have been removed from OTC drugs, or from drugs altogether, like phenylpropanolamine, and ephedrine. They worked better, but they also killed a lot of people. Those little bottles of 5-hour energy are a real cash cow. They are several dollars a bottle, and are basically a few vitamins, caffeine, and taurine. You can achieve the same effects as a 5-hour energy by taking a generic No-Doz, and a children’s vitamin. Forget about the taurine. It aids in fat metabolism, and is necessary for nervous system function, but high doses don’t make you metabolize MORE fat, or make your nervous system work better. You would have to have a taurine deficiency for the supplement to have any effect, and that’s hard to have. If you _do_ have it, it’s probably a metabolic problem, and a oral supplement won’t help. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/25 "2018-07-07T15:24:59Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > The term “testosterone supplement” itself is a bit misleading. The only way it can be a supplement is if the product actually increases your body’s natural production of the hormone. How do prescription testosterone treatments work? Do they cause your body’s normal testosterone production to eventually shut down as the supplemental testosterone takes over? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/26 "2018-07-07T18:50:19Z")
> [@CharmaChameleon](#): > > If it’s on television, my immediate assumption is that it is a scam. Period. > [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Simple: Seems too good to be true = IS too good to be true. Wow. _Both_ of these things are horribly oversimplified to the point of utter uselessness. First: So many things advertise on TV, drugs and otherwise, that using _that_ as part of your process to separate scam from not-scam is pointless. Second: From a historical perspective, _vaccines_ are too good to be true. They’re cheap, simple injections which can prevent serious infectious disease? Pull the other one, it’s got bells on. My point is, you can’t apply that logic unless and until you know the field well enough you don’t need it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/27 "2018-07-07T23:23:29Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > How do prescription testosterone treatments work? Do they cause your body’s normal testosterone production to eventually shut down as the supplemental testosterone takes over? Generally, if you’re on the prescription treatment - your body’s normal production is already at a halt or very much suppressed - this can happen for several reasons (the pituatary isn’t sending the signal to create it, the nads aren’t creating it, etc). And yes, the thing is that if the body senses it has enough, the pituatary will not send out the signal that says make it, etc. See - [Hypogonadism](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/male-hypogonadism/symptoms-causes/syc-20354881) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/28 "2018-07-07T23:36:30Z")
Trans men have to IM it. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/29 "2018-07-07T23:44:44Z")
Intra-Muscular injection? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/30 "2018-07-08T00:10:39Z")
There was [one](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49827788_Physiological_Aspects_of_Male_Libido_Enhanced_by_Standardized_Trigonella_foenum-graecum_Extract_and_Mineral_Formulation)double blind study that found the active ingredient in Nugenix, testofen, caused a subjective increase in libido. N was 60 and no testosterone effects were observed. As has been said Fennugreek is commonly used by nursing women to increase production so it is not crazy to think that it can somehow have hormone like effects. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/31 "2018-07-08T00:17:56Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Nugenix sounds like a drug for treating cat scratch fever. > > Speaking of weird supplement names, I saw one at Costco called “Ubiquitol”, which, I’m assuming from its name, can be found everywhere. I think that’s the generic version of unobtainium. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/32 "2018-07-09T00:23:33Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Intra-Muscular injection? Yes. I used to IM my estrogen. It kind of hurts but that depends mainly on the gauge of the needle. Luckily for me, estrogen is pretty fluid and uses a thin needle. I don’t know what testosterone is like. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/33 "2018-07-09T19:07:53Z")
Things to remember: Thomas used steroids. Looks like he still does. For professional reasons I can’t say more. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/34 "2018-07-09T19:11:09Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Vitamins, for most people, most of the time–are snake oil (“expensive pee”). A tad less true for protein supplements, but even then I suspect that they aren’t doing much for most of their customers. Someone going to the gym once a week doesn’t need a protein shake, just a chicken sandwich. True enough. But the point is that they \*can \*have actual health benefits, while Nugenix probably doesn’t have any even for people with testosterone deficiency. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/35 "2018-07-09T22:11:26Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > How do prescription testosterone treatments work? Do they cause your body’s normal testosterone production to eventually shut down as the supplemental testosterone takes over? Yes. It’s something that’s not very publicized: once you begin TRT therapy (testosterone REPLACEMENT therapy, not supplementation) you will most likely need to be on it for life. ETA: Men on TRT who wish to have children must be administered medicine that temporarily kickstarts fertility. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/36 "2018-07-10T01:15:36Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Yes. It’s something that’s not very publicized: once you begin TRT therapy (testosterone REPLACEMENT therapy, not supplementation) you will most likely need to be on it for life. > > ETA: Men on TRT who wish to have children must be administered medicine that temporarily kickstarts fertility. You keep saying this - the reality is that you only begin it (or should only begin it) once you are unable to produce the needed testosterone - so being on it ‘for life’ is fully expected. This isn’t a therapy you use for 1-2 weeks and hope things pick back up naturally - you’re deficient for an actual reason. The only reason that might ‘go away’ is if its similar to a tumor on the hypothalmus or pituatary - but they will remove that and see if things return before starting the therapy (assumed, wasn’t an option for me) - or start the therapy to forgo the removal. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/37 "2018-07-10T01:21:37Z")
Yes but I’ve talked to men-some on this board-who think of “testosterone supplementation” as a short-term therapy used to “boost” their natural levels. The belief that TRT can be used briefly as a “supplement” to low natural levels is surprisingly common. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/38 "2018-07-10T12:42:24Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Yes but I’ve talked to men-some on this board-who think of “testosterone supplementation” as a short-term therapy used to “boost” their natural levels. The belief that TRT can be used briefly as a “supplement” to low natural levels is surprisingly common. fair enough -the cost of the various TRT meds should be enough to counter that plus requiring a prescription. This is not your over the counter ‘booster’. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/39 "2018-07-10T12:58:57Z")
So what’s the deal with all the “men’s health” clinics that are popping up? I’ve assumed it’s for guys who want to boost their testosterone to a level commonly found in younger men. So a 50-year-old will get the testosterone level of a 30-year-old or something like that. But wouldn’t that mean they would have to do treatments forever? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368/40 "2018-07-10T13:17:25Z")
It depends on the clinic. If there are real doctors there, and they prescribe TRT, then yes, the patient will have to stay on the treatment long-term. If the problem is erectile dysfunction, then they can prescribe Viagra or related treatments. I don’t know if ED ever goes away on its own - I suppose it could, depending on the underlying condition(s). If they are just giving you vitamins and herbals and suchlike, it doesn’t matter how long you stay on it - it won’t have any effect besides placebo. My perception is that many “men’s health clinics” do both - they offer real treatment and woo. Some just do the woo - those that concentrate on real medicine just advertise as internal medicine or gerontologists or internists. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-nugenix-endorsed-by-frank-thomas-is-a-complete-scam-right/817368.md?page=3)