# So... objectively... is Senator John McCain a "war hero"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 19, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578 "2015-07-19T03:56:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/41 "2015-07-19T14:43:45Z")
Yes, of course a war hero, regardless of his political stance, and whether or not the US involvement in Viet Nam was legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/42 "2015-07-19T15:00:41Z")
Even if they didn’t torture him very much, he was locked in a prison camp in the jungle for 5.5 years of his life. Just saying, that’s pretty bad. At the same time, Trump was probably snorting coke off of the naked bodies of beautiful ladies, or kicking back and enjoying some nice booze, or… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/43 "2015-07-19T15:11:15Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > At the same time, Trump was probably snorting coke off of the naked bodies of beautiful ladies, or kicking back and enjoying some nice booze, or… Trump said he avoided service in the Vietnam War through student deferments and a medical deferment, then said he didn’t serve because “I was not a big fan of the Vietnam war.” He added he wasn’t a protester. [From here](http://news.yahoo.com/floridas-rubio-hes-experienced-21st-century-issues-163151020--election.html). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/44 "2015-07-19T15:35:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Which answers the second part of my question: "in the past were there vehement arguments in Democrat echo chambers that he is no “war hero” - with a “yes”. Only by equating “well-reasoned” with “vehement.” Last time I checked, those two things weren’t synonyms. > [@](#): > > That’s hilarious. > > “We are always looking for friendly, liberal people who appreciate good discussions and who understand the importance of **electing more Democrats to office**.” Nah, nothing to do with the Democrats, is it? If I said I understood the importance of having great sex with Scarlett Johansson, that wouldn’t mean I had anything to do with her, and would certainly not mean she had any idea who I was. > [@](#): > > And as for “tiny” - they claim to be “the most active liberal discussion board on the Internet”. I am not aware of any more active ones. Are you? They can claim anything they want. This seems apropos: [QUOTE=National Lampoon’s DOON] “What sort of man was Duke Lotto Agamemnides? We may say he was a brave man, yet a man who knew the value of caution. We may say he was possessed of a highly refined sense of honor – yet, like all leaders, he was no less capable of acts duplicitous and sleazy. We may say this, we may say that – indeed, we may say anything we want. We may say, for example, that he was not a man at all, but rather a highly evolved bicycle. See? We may say just about anything.” - from House Agamemnides: Historical Perspectives and Worthless Digressions, by the Princess Serutan [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/45 "2015-07-19T15:36:05Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > You can love Trump or you can hate him, but you have to give him credit: who else could make the teeming millions of Straight Dope Bleeding Heart Liberals defend John McCain! I like to think that truth is truth. Being a war hero doesn’t make McCain suited to be president, but Trump is a total ass for trying to say he’s not. However, Trump says stupid, silly shit pretty much every day so not sure why anyone would take anything that clown says seriously in any case. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/46 "2015-07-19T15:39:28Z")
First of all, Vietnam was NOT a “war”-it was a police action. There was no official declaration of war, just Lyndon Johnson saying how he wanted to bring peace and freedom to South Vietnam. Was McCain a “hero”? He endured torture and injury, and lost many years of his life. He did what countless others had done. He endured, and survived. Does that make him a “hero”? ---
**Author:** ![ropeAdope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@ropeAdope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ropeAdope)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/47 "2015-07-19T15:40:53Z")
The better question is, Is Trump an ass? Although he sometimes has a good point and is willing to say what others won’t, in general he appears to be a self-absorbed donkey. I did enjoy the first season of his reality show though, but didn’t watch after that. I can’t see him getting very far in the race. As for McCain, he served his country with honor. I honor his service, and that of all our veterans. It may sound corny, but it’s true… freedom isn’t free. Too many have paid the price for our current way of life, that perhaps we sometime take a little too lightly. Freedom isn’t guaranteed, it often must be defended or lost. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/48 "2015-07-19T15:44:13Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I didnt mean to sound snarky or disrespectful…I just meant that McCain was obviously much stronger than the thousands of soldiers who have served in combat, and then suffered PTSD. That’s a good point, but maybe we should take a look at some pilots who got shot down and were strong enough not to break three limbs, like McCain did. Seems like they’re the real heroes, here, right? In all seriousness, unless you have access to McCains’ medical records, you have no idea what he has or has not suffered from after coming back from the war. And either way, you have no basis for calling wounded soldiers weak, regardless of how they received their wounds. You should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/49 "2015-07-19T15:45:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I like to think that truth is truth. Being a war hero doesn’t make McCain suited to be president, but Trump is a total ass for trying to say he’s not. However, Trump says stupid, silly shit pretty much every day so not sure why anyone would take anything that clown says seriously in any case. That’s kind of the point. When he’s leading the polling because his opinions are resonating with the GOP base you ignore him at your peril. The GOP base is loving him to pieces for saying all the unspoken in polite company things they carry around in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/50 "2015-07-19T15:46:46Z")
As I said elsewhere, I think this is the best evidence we have that Trump isn’t taking this seriously. He’s just drumming up controversy for controversy’s sake. I think he really did just think he could do what he did in 2012, just doing even more. I think he did not expect NBC to cut ties with him, due to his contracts. I think he’s now kinda stuck doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/51 "2015-07-19T15:51:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Hey, _we_ were the ones who would have done the torturing! And we say we didn’t do it!’ Of course it is ridiculous. But did you notice which web site was publishing it? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/52 "2015-07-19T16:32:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course it is ridiculous. But did you notice which web site was publishing it? Do you think there’s an equivalence between the poll leading GOP candidate saying something and a lefty online magazine saying something similar? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/53 "2015-07-19T16:34:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do you think there’s an equivalence between the poll leading GOP candidate saying something and a lefty online magazine saying something similar? I missed it I guess. Which “leading GOP candidate” claimed that McCain wasn’t tortured? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/54 "2015-07-19T16:45:56Z")
How tiresome. OK, what’s your point? From here it looks like “Hey, you lefties are worse/just as bad!” because a lefty mag dissed McCain’s war story. If that’s not it please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/55 "2015-07-19T16:48:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > How tiresome. OK, what’s your point? From here it looks like “Hey, you lefties are worse!” because a lefty mag dissed McCain’s war story. If that’s not it please let me know. I never said lefties are worse. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/56 "2015-07-19T16:50:57Z")
Ok, so your point is lefties are just as bad because a lefty magazine dissed McCain which is similar to the lead GOP candidate doing same. Glad we cleared that up. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/57 "2015-07-19T16:56:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Ok, so your point is lefties are just as bad because a lefty magazine dissed McCain which is similar to the lead GOP candidate doing same. Glad we cleared that up. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot more opinions are shaped by CommonDreams + NewsOne + DemocraticUnderground etc. than by Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/58 "2015-07-19T17:06:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Democrat loons, you mean. On the Democrat forum. > > So to my question: “in the past was there mockery of McCain’s POW past on the left (jingling keys anyone)” the answer is “yes”. > > How about this [screed](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/08/03/561647/-John-McCain-is-no-war-hero) on another Democrat echo chamber? Or [this](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/04/21/500021/-McCain-War-Hero-or-Just-Incompetent-Pilot) one? Personally I think McCain was clearly a war hero and anybody who says he wasn’t is a partisan asshole, has an axe to grind, or is simply an idiot. I also think Max Cleland (Silver Start, Bronze Star, Purple Heart) and John Kerry (Silver Star, Bronze Star, 3 Purple Hearts) were war heroes. After the dirty pool played in the 2002 and 2004 elections where these gentleman’s records were dragged through the mud and many right wing leaning folks were able to overlook their recorded due to naked partisanship, I am not that surprised that there are Democrats that are willing to attack the war record of someone like John McCain. For the most part, I don’t believe Democrats cotton to these types of attacks; it is mostly Republicans that gleefully like to attack the patriotism of their opponents, even those that have given limbs in the service of their country. I think the majority of the responses in this thread shows that. Who do you feel about the other Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Purple Heart recipients that have their patriotism and war service questioned Terr? ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/59 "2015-07-19T17:14:55Z")
He volunteered for combat. He volunteered for dangerous missions. He refused early release, and largely did not cooperate with his captors in the face of brutal torture. These are heroic things. That is what “hero” means. Trump’s comments are repugnant. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578/60 "2015-07-19T17:20:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot more opinions are shaped by CommonDreams + NewsOne + DemocraticUnderground etc. than by Trump. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they all are just preaching to their own particular choir. Difference is, only one of them is polling favorably to be a Presidential nominee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-objectively-is-senator-john-mccain-a-war-hero/725578.md?page=4)