# So our fighter pilots take a little Speed...So what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412 "2003-01-03T14:14:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Coda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Coda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coda)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/1 "2003-01-03T14:14:12Z")
According to [this](http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2002/020801-speed.htm) article, American Fighter Pilots routinely take _“go-pills”_ in the form of Dexidrine - an amphetamine - to keep them going on long missions. As recenlty as this past spring, four Canadian servicemen were killed by a 500-pound bomb - _Friendly Fire Accident_ - the Pilot of the American plane was taking go-pills. The pilot initially thought the Canadians were Afghani renegades firing at them. He was told to hold fire, then 16 seconds later said he’s “rolling in” and bombed the Canadians with a laser guided 500-pound bomb. 4 seconds after the bombing told his co-pilot “Uh Oh… I hope we were supposed to do that…” \<-paraphrase. An interesting question about this is not whether they were right or wrong - they were obviously wrong - but the question lies in the thousands of other pilots taking amphetamines, to carry-out long large scale missions against known agressors. If at the end of the trial the two pilots responsible for the friendly fire incident, get the max sentence of 64 years, will our pilots take that extra second to think about what they are firing at, and potentially miss the target in the future? So the debate lies not in the guilt of the pilots who bombed the Canadians - that is atrocious in itself - but should our pilots still take amphetamines to carry out an intense mission. Did the amphetamines actually play a role in the unfortunate action? ---
**Author:** ![lout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@lout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lout)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/2 "2003-01-03T14:22:22Z")
Anyone who has actually used speed understands that this is a really bad idea, but typical of the “minds” running the mililtary. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/3 "2003-01-03T14:31:49Z")
Well, I guess I speak for the non meth-heads when I say “care to fill us in?”. Does the amphetamine “Dexidrine” cause impared judgement or just keep them awake and jittery? It certainly sounds like it could be dangerous stuff up there to be taking. But, the fact that this pilot made a mistake while on it doesn’t mean it was the cause. Would more accidents happen due to drowsyness on long flights that lacked the drug? Would it be better or worse for them just to be all hopped up on caffeine? ---
**Author:** ![Birefringence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Birefringence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birefringence)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/4 "2003-01-03T14:36:17Z")
My adult son has taken Dexidrine for 12 years. He has been on it since he was 16, he uses it for ADD. He was recenlty a subject for a study of Adults with ADD. Long term effects are varied, but he does not show any physiological deficiencies… **Lout** I think you are talking about the abuse of amphetamines, not the controlled dosage. And I agree with your last statement about military “minds”. But refering to the OP I must say I would want our guys to continue to take anything that will enhance their performance, as long as it is readily controlled. IIRC the pilot who bombed the Canadians is distraught with grief and very very remorseful. Manslaughter it may be, but I think with the amount of stress in those pilots minds, the bombing was a mistake of the highest order, but I also beleive our guys should continue to do what it takes to fight terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Baskil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Baskil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baskil)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/5 "2003-01-03T14:37:46Z")
[Looks like it could do both](http://www.addictionca.com/FAQ-dexedrine.htm). And God help us if the pilots, being pressured (directly and indirectly) to take it, take too much at once. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/6 "2003-01-03T14:43:05Z")
This shoots to hell the whole idea that anybody needs to be chemically “clean” in order to operate safely in pretty much any work environment. I had to pee in a jar to get my current job and I doubt my employer would have been happy to see me test positive for amphetamines. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/7 "2003-01-03T14:48:32Z")
I’m a bit confused here. When I read about this, it wasn’t Dexedrine that was mentioned, which I understand to be comparatively benign, but dat ol debbil methamphetamine, which is on my list of the worst things ever to come out of test tube. Anybody more sure? ---
**Author:** ![Birefringence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Birefringence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birefringence)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/8 "2003-01-03T14:49:10Z")
Do employers check for amphetamines? What if an employee has ADD and takes Ritalin or Dexdrine? Those are amphetamines? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/9 "2003-01-03T14:49:14Z")
So, this stuff is basically Ritalin? My college roomie had a script for it. I never liked the stuff, but our room was mighty popular at finals time. People would take it too keep awake and concentrate on studying. I can’t see how it would make you bomb someone accidentally. If that’s what we are talking about, that is. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/10 "2003-01-03T14:50:02Z")
From **Baskil** ’s link: > [@](#): > > A) The side effects that occur with Dexedrine are: addiction, agitation/irritability, insomnia, dry mouth, headache, nausea, weight loss, hallucinations, liver irritation/toxicity, increased heart rate, tics, Tourette’s syndrome, sexual difficulties, behavior disturbances, and thought disorder, elevation of blood pressure, over stimulation, restlessness, dizziness, euphoria, headache, exacerbation of motor skills, diarrhea, and constipation. Wow ! Are these things we want fighter jet pilots to be dealing with ? Out of curiousity … what would happen to me if I was caught with a handful of dexedrine at a party? This kind of thing makes me even more cynical of the ‘war on drugs’. For kids having fun, it’s dangerous and illegal, but for operators of heavy and lethal machinery, it’s recommended. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/11 "2003-01-03T14:52:47Z")
From [this](http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035776181602&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724) article in a (Canadian) newspaper: > [@](#): > > “This is speed,” Dr. Robert DuPont, former White House drug czar, told ABC. “This is where we got the phrase, `speed kills.”’ So what is it? Speed? Ritalin? … any doctors in the house? ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/12 "2003-01-03T15:05:40Z")
FTR- Ritalin is not amphetamine. It is chemically related, and has similar effects in high doses, but it’s not the same thing. Dexedrine is Dextroamphetamine. this is the d- isomer of amphetamine and is more powerful then the fairly weak l- isomer or the mixture that was once sold as benzedrine. Methamphetamine is the most powerful of the bunch. however the biochemical reactions of all these drugs are basically identical, so a huge dose of dexedrine is just as bad as a small to moderate dose of meth. The effect of these drugs on an ADD child is pretty much irrelavent to the topic, as stimulants have a much different effect on people suffering from ADD then they do on someone with “normal” brain chemistry. The danger, in my mind at least, from giving speed to fighter pilots is not so much from the effects of one controlled dose, but the long term effects of chronic use(even in moderate doses) combined with sleep deprivation. This can lead to a condition called amphetamine induced psychosis, which is similar to schizophrenia. Even if it doesn’t go that far, temporary sensory impairment can easily be the result, especially as the sleep deprivation gets worse. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/13 "2003-01-03T15:07:07Z")
When I was a ferry pilot, about thirtyfive years ago, it was quite normal to drop in at the FAA doctor’s office before any long trip. He had a big jar of Dexedrine caps sitting on a shelf by his desk, and would pick up a handful and pour them into a vial without even counting. The point was that any side effects the 'drines might have were a lot less harmful than falling asleep on a fourteen or sixteen hour flight. My brother didn’t like the stuff, and wouldn’t take them. One day he apparently did fall asleep, and flew straight into the side of a mountain. There’s a tradeoff in almost anything you do. Unless the pilots in Afghanistan were gobbling amphetamines by the dozen, they were at least as likely to make errors of judgement when tired. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/14 "2003-01-03T15:33:00Z")
This military publication about [Fatigue and Air Crews](http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/AAM-400A/FASMB/FAS200202/Desync.htm) says: > [@](#): > > Stimulants and sedatives are currently used in US military and foreign commercial operations. There may be a role for stimulants such as modafanil, pemoline, methylphenidate, and amphetamines in defined settings. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/15 "2003-01-03T16:16:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*Stimulants and sedatives are currently used in US military and foreign commercial operations. There may be a role for stimulants such as modafanil, pemoline, methylphenidate, and amphetamines in defined settings. \*\* I’m not familiar with pemoline or modafanil, but if anyone is wondering methylphenidate is the chemical name for ritalin. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/16 "2003-01-03T16:22:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lout \* > \*\*Anyone who has actually used speed understands that this is a really bad idea, but typical of the “minds” running the mililtary. \*\* Well, I’ve tried speed. It made me hyper-alert and jittery. I’ve also operated machinery (driven cars) while sleepy, and it’s very dangerous. If my life depended on it, I’d take speed over falling asleep any time. In a perfect world our flyers would be perfectly rested and alert during the entirety of the mission. Of course, in a perfect world we’d not be flying these missions. **cowgirl** , on the back of my botle of aspirin there is a warning of over 200 words and it finishes with “see box for complete warnings”. It’s important to put all this in context. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/17 "2003-01-03T16:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cowgirl \* > \*\* > > ## From Baskil’s link: quote: > > ## A) The side effects that occur with Dexedrine are: addiction, agitation/irritability, insomnia, dry mouth, headache, nausea, weight loss, hallucinations, liver irritation/toxicity, increased heart rate, tics, Tourette’s syndrome, sexual difficulties, behavior disturbances, and thought disorder, elevation of blood pressure, over stimulation, restlessness, dizziness, euphoria, headache, exacerbation of motor skills, diarrhea, and constipation. > > Wow ! Are these things we want fighter jet pilots to be dealing with ? > > Out of curiousity … what would happen to me if I was caught with a handful of dexedrine at a party? This kind of thing makes me even more cynical of the ‘war on drugs’. For kids having fun, it’s dangerous and illegal, but for operators of heavy and lethal machinery, it’s recommended. \*\* Well, here is the list of side effects from the ORTHO TRI-CYCLEN birth control pill. [Cite](http://www.usaprescription.com/Ortho.asp) > [@](#): > > Side Effects > Side effects, that may go away during treatment, include nausea, vomiting, bleeding between menstrual periods, breast tenderness, or weight change. If they continue or are bothersome, check with your doctor. Check with your doctor as soon as possible if you experience persistent or recurrent abnormal vaginal bleeding, a missed menstrual period, dizziness or fainting, swelling of fingers or ankles, headache, or difficulty wearing contact lenses. Contact your doctor immediately if you experience sharp or crushing chest pain, sudden shortness of breath, sudden severe headache or leg pain, yellow skin or eyes, changes in vision, numbness of an arm or leg, or severe stomach pain. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist. I guess females on the pill shouldn’t be allowed to fly if they are in this rough of shape. 😉 An seemingly alarming list of side effects can be found for just about any drug. That doesn’t make them inherently dangerous. And it isn’t enought to convince me that it shouldn’t be taken by US pilots. I’m not saying these Dexedrine pills are a good thing for pilots to be taking. I just haven’t seen any arguments in this thread to convince me that they are bad. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/18 "2003-01-03T16:27:32Z")
the pilots are given (the opportunity to take if they so desire) 10mg dexedrine pills. They’re told to take one at a time, and given explicit instruction on when to take the pill. 10mg of dexedrine is not really that strong a dose; in fact, it’s a pretty mild dose. Sure, you can overdose on it if you take more than you’re supposed to, but that doesn’t make it a bad thing. What bothers me the most about this is the same government that makes amphetamines Schedule II controlled substances (which means you can never, ever, ever get them because you have a lot of hard work to do and don’t want to fall asleep) is the same government that is giving them to its employees to keep them awake while working for it. Double standard? Hypocrisy? I dunno, but it pisses me off. I should be able to go into a pharmacy and get 10mg dexedrine pills for final exams if I so desire. Ditto for Oxycontin when I have a bad headache, and Dilaudid when I have a bad bachache. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/19 "2003-01-03T16:29:48Z")
oops, ‘bachache’ should be backache. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412/20 "2003-01-03T16:32:01Z")
Or, what **bnorton** said. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-our-fighter-pilots-take-a-little-speed-so-what/146412.md?page=2)