# So Philippine president Duterte abuses fentanyl? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113 "2016-12-19T03:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/21 "2016-12-20T00:43:30Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Killing rather than treatment seems an odd choice for a Catholic country. It’s a dirt-poor Catholic country. The legal minimum **daily** wage averages about $2.50 for unskilled labor and many don’t even get that much. Duterte himself despises the Catholic church as much as he despises Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/22 "2016-12-20T00:52:54Z")
Well you could make drug addiction or possession punishable by death. This would be monstrous and achieve nothing, but a slight improvement over the current solution of _wholesale mass murder by extra-judicial death squads._ I mean, aren’t you, presumably a non-meth-user, ever afraid that one of these gangs might mistake you for a meth user? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/23 "2016-12-20T00:56:31Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > While your countries solution IS a hard pill to swallow…it does bring up an interesting debate…when does a poor society throw basic ethics to the wind because the threat the problem presents will destroy said society… Indeed a good idea in GD. > [@billfish678](#): > > …but the Eskimos put old people on ice floes. Haven’t indigenous folks, themselves, gotten up in arms about senilicide, which is why there hasn’t been reams of documentation of it being practiced? At least in the last 100 or so years anyway? > [@billfish678](#): > > …and it wasn’t because they couldn’t stand seeing another Matt Lock rerun. I’m pretty sure you were thinking of _Who’s The Boss_. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/24 "2016-12-20T02:15:59Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > The Chinese government doubtlessly could do more with export control. At least they aren’t exerting any pressure regarding Chinese citizens arrested in the Philippines on drug-related charges. > > But on what basis are you questioning the practicality of killing meth people? Do you have a more workable solution? I doubt that the Chinese government could do much even if they wanted to. The ingredients would just come from elsewhere. No man, no problem, dah? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/25 "2016-12-20T02:25:25Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Well you could make drug addiction or possession punishable by death. This would be monstrous and achieve nothing, but a slight improvement over the current solution of _wholesale mass murder by extra-judicial death squads._ I mean, aren’t you, presumably a non-meth-user, ever afraid that one of these gangs might mistake you for a meth user? 😕 It IS NOT wholesale mass murder. As I mentioned above, there have been remarkably few innocents killed. I am aware of only ONE, a 4 y.o. girl who was shot by a frustrated assassin when her grandfather could not be found. No one is ever going to mistake me for a native. I am brown on the inside but white on the outside. There is a decent probability I will someday meet my fate on the chaotic, anarchic roads, most likely at the hands of a tweaking bus or jeepney driver. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/26 "2016-12-20T03:16:37Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Killing rather than treatment seems an odd choice for a Catholic country. Demographically, it’s a predominantly Roman Catholic country. Legally, there’s no official religion. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/27 "2016-12-20T03:34:38Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > It IS NOT wholesale mass murder. As I mentioned above, there have been remarkably few innocents killed. I am aware of only ONE, a 4 y.o. girl who was shot by a frustrated assassin when her grandfather could not be found. Of the [3,600+](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/philippines-secret-death-squads-police-officer-teams-behind-killings) killed so far, how do you know which ones were innocent and which weren’t? Particularly the thousand plus killed not by police but by anonymous people? But I guess if enough people are killed, it’s just a statistic, right? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/28 "2016-12-20T04:30:26Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > It IS NOT wholesale mass murder. … a 4 y.o. girl who was shot by a frustrated assassin when her grandfather could not be found. > … Let me guess… You gotta break a few eggs. Right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/29 "2016-12-20T15:28:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Let me guess… > > You gotta break a few eggs. Right? :dubious: And add a dash of milk, then fry to taste. There really does have to be more tragedy to it but it isn’t being reported, at least not that I’ve noticed. If there was much of it to report, the international news organizations would be all over it. If you can provide any examples I’d pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/30 "2016-12-20T16:47:59Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Of the [3,600+](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/philippines-secret-death-squads-police-officer-teams-behind-killings) killed so far, how do you know which ones were innocent and which weren’t? Particularly the thousand plus killed not by police but by anonymous people? > > But I guess if enough people are killed, it’s just a statistic, right? We know that every last one of them were druggies because they if they weren’t we wouldn’t have killed them. The only reason that the accidental death of the 4 year old occured was because she was too young to be plausibly considered to be a druggie. Come the next election I imagine it will be startling how many of the opposition party are also found to be druggies. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/31 "2016-12-20T21:05:18Z")
The 4 y.o. was no accident. Cocksucker shot her deliberately, probably to encourage the grandpa to show up before more of his family got killed. Hopefully that was CS’s final job. I’ll start getting worried if Duterte declares martial law, dissolves their congress or some such. In the meantime he has several ideas that I really like. No loud music after 10PM, curfew for minors, no public drinking or smoking. These may not seem important to people who don’t live there, but they will add much to my quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/32 "2016-12-20T21:10:43Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > The 4 y.o. was no accident. Cocksucker shot her deliberately, probably to encourage the grandpa to show up before more of his family got killed. Hopefully that was CS’s final job. > > I’ll start getting worried if Duterte declares martial law, dissolves their congress or some such. In the meantime he has several ideas that I really like. No loud music after 10PM, curfew for minors, no public drinking or smoking. These may not seem important to people who don’t live there, but they will add much to my quality of life. Sure there are death squads running around, but people aren’t playing music after 10pm or smoking in public anymore. I can understand how people who live in narco states want answers. If the judiciary is totally corrupt I can understand how people get so desperate they turn to someone like Duterte. But what you just said doesn’t make sense to me as someone in the west. What you describe (death squads are ok but minor annoyances are not) sounds like a very military junta/fascist attitude. Is that because the Philippines was a military dictatorship for so long that culturally this doesn’t bother you? I’m not trying to be rude, I just can’t understand the mentality that public smoking being banned is a good trade off for a death squad or potential dissolution of congress. Like you said, it doesn’t make sense for people who don’t live there. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/33 "2016-12-21T04:12:21Z")
This is fine though because he’s white. How could the local constables possibly mistake a sahib for a drug pusher? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/34 "2016-12-21T04:58:15Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > This is fine though because he’s white. How could the local constables possibly mistake a sahib for a drug pusher? Sorry, who is white? We’ve talked about several people here. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/35 "2016-12-21T09:43:27Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > I am aware of a lot that goes on in the Philippines, and I am unaware of any non-meth-related killings other than remarkably few innocent bystanders (or Mushrooms as they’re called in the 'Hood). The pot heads and dealers are not being targeted. Funny - other Filipinos I talk to, including those living in the Philippines, tell me a different story. Things like killings unrelated to drugs that involve personal vendettas with the victim afterward being accused of drug use. Killing of political rivals, same tactics. And not limited to just meth. Huh, who should I believe? > [@](#): > > Killing them may not be the right thing to do, but it’s the practical course of action. To deal with the problem by Western standards would require reforming the ridiculously inefficient and corrupt judicial system. Gee, maybe we should just start gunning down suspected gang members without trial - it’s wrong, but it’s practical, right? Or target the group of your choice for that treatment. Sorry, it doesn’t get a handwave from me. This is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/36 "2016-12-21T14:29:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Funny - other Filipinos I talk to, including those living in the Philippines, tell me a different story. Things like killings unrelated to drugs that involve personal vendettas with the victim afterward being accused of drug use. Killing of political rivals, same tactics. And not limited to just meth. > > Huh, who should I believe? > Gee, maybe we should just start gunning down suspected gang members without trial - it’s wrong, but it’s practical, right? Or target the group of your choice for that treatment. > > Sorry, it doesn’t get a handwave from me. This is wrong. My purpose is not to excuse it, but rather to explain why it’s going on. **Broomstick** is speaking truth. There _is_ frequent murder-for-hire, and I have no doubt some of the supposed drug-related killings are actually due to personal vendettas and business disputes. It’s my impression that a hit-man costs about US$500. _But_ if international media are not onto it, it must not be completely out of control. “Sahib” is a term used in India. In the PI us foreigners are “Joes”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/37 "2016-12-21T14:35:50Z")
You won’t catch me getting involved in any businesses or publicly criticizing any politicians in the PI. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/38 "2016-12-21T14:43:12Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > **Broomstick** is speaking truth. There _is_ frequent murder-for-hire, and I have no doubt some of the supposed drug-related killings are actually due to personal vendettas and business disputes. It’s my impression that a hit-man costs about US$500. _But_ if international media are not onto it, it must not be completely out of control. Growing up, my area saw quite a few ETA bombs and murders linked to the drug trade. People from the area know they were linked to the drug trade; people trusting what they’ve heard from the media will never realize how deeply linked ETA were to the drug trade or how and how much getting into the drug trade changed them. Using “a reporter noticed” as a litmus test doesn’t seem particularly solid methodology, to me. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/39 "2016-12-21T15:14:44Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > You won’t catch me getting involved in any businesses or publicly criticizing any politicians in the PI. And people are OK with it? Yes they are. It sounds exactly like a great place - to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113/40 "2016-12-21T15:21:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Using “a reporter noticed” as a litmus test doesn’t seem particularly solid methodology, to me. Agreed. I got nothing better though. There is a reason why I specified “international media”. The PI has a quite high rate of journalist murders so local reporters may not be as forthcoming as they could be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-philippine-president-duterte-abuses-fentanyl/775113.md?page=3)