# So Prigozhin is down before Putin **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988 "2023-08-23T17:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/1 "2023-08-23T17:35:44Z")
Some claim, [this was](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWq0DFA5xrg) the plane. IMHO, this is interesting news. The [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/08/23/world/russia-ukraine-war-news) writes something similar. Conspiracy theories will sprout, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/2 "2023-08-23T17:53:13Z")
IF he was on the plane then yes, this is an interesting development. The NYT article you linked quotes a source saying Prigozhin may have been on a different plane. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/3 "2023-08-23T17:55:02Z")
Whether or not this was an assassination, will anyone believe this wasn’t an assassination? Woof. This feels big, and destabilizing, and I just can’t tell if that’s gonna be good or bad. Prigozhin is one of the baddest of the bad guys, but his conflict with Putin seems to have hindered Russia’s reign of terror. What will happen with him gone? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/4 "2023-08-23T17:57:10Z")
Sounds like he is out of the picture, whether he was on that plane, Putin wants everyone to believe he was on it, or he himself wants everyone to believe he was on it. I doubt we find out the truth before Putin dies, and maybe not ever. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/5 "2023-08-23T17:58:12Z")
I’m still pissed off he called off that advance to Moscow. Things were just beginning to get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/6 "2023-08-23T17:59:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Things were just beginning to get interesting. May you live in interesting times. I prefer boring. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/7 "2023-08-23T18:00:15Z")
If he wasn’t on the plane, then he is at this moment having unspeakable things done to him. If he was on the plane, I suspect it was shot down. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/8 "2023-08-23T18:00:24Z")
I read on Russian media (translated by wife, I don’t speak Russian) all kind of speculation. Some even claim that because Ucraine is sending drones to Russia it may have been shot accidentally, confused with an enemy drone (which I think is ridiculous). Others say there were two planes flying in tandem, the second plane turned around and went back to Moscow. That would give Prigozhin a 50:50 chance of survival. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/9 "2023-08-23T18:03:26Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Others say there were two planes flying in tandem, the second plane turned around and went back to Moscow. That would give Prigozhin a 50:50 chance of survival. Man, who wants to be the poor bastard who has to explain to Putin that they shot down the wrong plane? “What, are we skimping on missiles now? Why didn’t you shoot down both of them?!?” ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/10 "2023-08-23T18:03:58Z")
Surely the issue was never “if” he’d be assasinated, but merely “how”. They have windows in planes but I suspect they are too small to “fall” through. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/11 "2023-08-23T18:25:07Z")
CNN is being very clear that Progozhin’s death is not confirmed. They also quoted a rather droll line from a month or so ago, from the US Secretary of State: > If I were Mr. Prigozhin, I would remain very concerned. NATO has an open-door policy; Russia has an open-windows policy. And he needs to be very focused on that. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/12 "2023-08-23T18:32:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > They have windows in planes but I suspect they are too small to “fall” through. The explosion of a missile warhead probably widens the window frame a bit. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/13 "2023-08-23T18:38:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > They have windows in planes but I suspect they are too small to “fall” through. At altitude, sucked, fell, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/14 "2023-08-23T18:44:59Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > CNN is being very clear that Progozhin’s death is not confirmed. Perhaps tangentially, CNN is also reporting that most of their information is coming from Russian state media, and implying that “you can take that as you will.” Still, there is new video coming out, and an unconfirmed report that when the aircraft fell out of the sky, it was missing a wing, as if it was hit by a missile. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/15 "2023-08-23T18:47:07Z")
Mikhail Khodorkowski’s TV on-line channel confirms Prigozhin was on board and is dead. He is usually well informed, if not exactly objective concerning Putin (he hates him deeply and thoroughly). Meanwhile Putin is celebrating the victory over Nazi Germany 80 years ago with a ceremony awarding medals to soldiers. The same medal he gave Prigozhin a couple of years ago. He has not mentioned the crash at all. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/16 "2023-08-23T18:48:00Z")
Interesting that there were rumors of Putin being assassinated this morning. > **[No, there is no 'official statement' about Putin being assassinated | Fact check](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2023/08/22/putin-is-alive-was-not-assassinated-in-kremlin-fact-check/70648399007/)** > > A video used clickbait in its caption to draw attention to the claim that Russian President Vladimir Putin was killed. He is very much alive. ---
**Author:** ![deltogre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deltogre/32/5041_2.png) [@deltogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltogre)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/17 "2023-08-23T18:48:05Z")
I agree with everything BobLibDem says. I called this shit after the advance on Moscow, as did _every single reasonably-minded person on these boards._ I’d like to know when ANYONE would stand up to Putin. Jim Murder is, suddenly, _de rigueur_… ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/18 "2023-08-23T18:48:28Z")
Surprised it took so long. I mean I’m not sure “conspiracy theory” is the right word here, as absolutely the most obvious, almost universally accepted, version of events (from the moment the news broke) is this was the result of a conspiracy by Putin to kill the person who led a mutiny against him. The nutjob conspiracy theory here is that this was just a regular plane crash caused by mechanical issues or pilot error. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/19 "2023-08-23T18:51:46Z")
The conspiracies I mean are of the kind “he faked his own death”, “he was not on the plane”, “the plane was shot down by mistake” (that one has already been mentioned), “Putin has nothing to do with that, it happened behind his back” and many even more absurd I can’t think of right now, but do not worry: somebody will soon. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/20 "2023-08-23T18:53:58Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I mean I’m not sure “conspiracy theory” is the right word here, as absolutely the most obvious, almost universally accepted, version of events (from the moment the news broke) is this was the result of a conspiracy by Putin to kill the person who led a mutiny against him. Yes, “theory” in this case can be taken in the true scientific sense rather than the more colloquial “thrown together wild-ass guess”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988.md?page=2)