# So Prigozhin is down before Putin **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [August 23, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988 "2023-08-23T17:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/61 "2023-08-25T02:12:21Z")
It’s a pure power play. Putin as Main Boss. _Capo di tutti capi_. Putin as gangster in chief is far more menacing to anyone else with ideas akin to Prigo’s than is Putin as president of a country operating under the rule of law and proper jurisprudential procedures. It’s also a giant FU to ordinary Russians. It says “I just killed 3 or however many total innocents on the way to getting Prigo and his henchman. Step even slightly out of line there Mr or Mrs Ivan / Ivana Ordinary-ski, and you too will meet a prompt and grisly end.” In a land of barbarians, the most barbaric is the one who ends up in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/62 "2023-08-25T02:13:02Z")
Does the _cappo di tutti capi_ hold a trial for the wiseguy who offends him? Or does he just have the guy whacked? Edit: Dammit @LSLGuy ! ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/63 "2023-08-25T02:31:58Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Why go to all the trouble to shoot down a plane, losing the aircraft and killing innocent crew members The one change I would have made is to shoot it down when it was flying toward Moscow, so it could be claimed that it was thought to be a Ukranian drone attacking the capital. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/64 "2023-08-25T02:32:18Z")
It’s a good question. While Russia has not abolished capital punishment, it has a moratorium and has not conducted a judicial execution since 1996. Extra-judicial killing with plausible deniability is the preferred method of dispatching undesirables. One could ask what there would to be gained in processing the undesirables through the judicial system, rather than just killing them gangster-style. I’m not sure there would be any benefit from Putin’s point of view. He would be giving up the rights to execute them on his terms and at the time of his choosing. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/65 "2023-08-25T02:32:37Z")
Yes, this is a warning to all the Wagnerites and all potential Wagner sympathizers, including General Surovikin. (“Who? do we have a general of that name?”) Stand too close to Piggy, and you get blown up. So sad, too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/66 "2023-08-25T02:56:45Z")
Putting someone through the judicial system is not nearly as terrifying as randomly murdering them and whoever happens to be with them. Above the law \> within the law. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/67 "2023-08-25T10:13:27Z")
The fact that Putin had to do it this way is important, though. Ordinary methods weren’t available, and the fact that it was so loud and blatant, roping in the military and crash investigators, says “brutal and clumsy.” Not as slick as usual. A sign Putin is crumbling, just is a bit. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/68 "2023-08-25T11:56:55Z")
> [@whitetho](#): > > The one change I would have made is to shoot it down when it was flying toward Moscow, so it could be claimed that it was thought to be a Ukranian drone attacking the capital. IMO that would completely defeat the purpose of what they did. Just like that NK general that was supposedly shot with an anti-aircraft cannon when a simple pistol shot would have made him equally dead. The whole and entire point is > This is the vast amount of organization and firepower I can command to descend on any head anywhere any time. All of you need to be very afraid of me. Any cover story totally neuters the real message. > [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > The fact that Putin had to do it this way is important, though. Ordinary methods weren’t available, and the fact that it was so loud and blatant, roping in the military and crash investigators, says “brutal and clumsy.” Not as slick as usual. A sign Putin is crumbling, just is a bit. Hard disagree. This was totally about exactly that loud blatant message. No clumsiness. In addition to what I said above the message is > Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Play really bigly stupid games, win especially brutal stupid prizes. Having Prigo hauled away in a van to be tortured to death, or simply shot in the back of the head by a sniper while eating dinner would have been trivially easy for the FSB. They wanted this splash as a show of force. This is the antithesis of clumsiness. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/69 "2023-08-26T00:51:47Z")
[Here’s a story](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/25/europe/prigozhin-plane-crash-visual-investigation-cmd-intl/index.html) on CNN’s website about the crash, lots of detail, and presenting evidence that suggests it was a bomb that brought the plane down. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/70 "2023-08-26T02:38:32Z")
It makes much more sense that it would be a bomb. With an anti-aircraft missile, there’s no plausible deniability. With a bomb, they can blame it on Ukrainian or NATO spies, or some other enemy they can use as an excuse to go after. Meanwhile, the memory of Wagner being erased from history in traditional Soviet style: > _…to put up a parking lot_🎵 ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/71 "2023-08-26T02:54:01Z")
Hmm, the Wagner cemetery story may not be as it seems. The story appeared on Russian local media, but relatives of Wagner dead replied to say that the cemetery is not being demolished, but is instead being made into a proper military cemetery. > > > ChrisO\_wiki @ChrisO\_wiki ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2023, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/72 "2023-08-26T10:14:21Z")
President Lukashenko says he warned Prigozhin twice following the coup. But Lukashenko also doesn’t think it was Putin who did it. Not out of naïveté, of course. “It was too rough, unprofessional work, for that matter,” he added. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/73 "2023-08-27T15:33:06Z")
There was little doubt but now it seems it is officially confirmed that Prigozhin was on the plane and is dead: > **[Wagner boss Prigozhin confirmed dead in plane crash - Moscow](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66632924)** > > Genetic analysis of the bodies was carried out following Wednesday's crash, Russian officials say. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/74 "2023-08-27T15:40:37Z")
“Prigozhin’s body was positively identified shortly before being being placed on the plane.” ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/75 "2023-08-27T16:15:37Z")
The double-think is getting stronger in Russia: 1.- Of course [it wasn’t Putin](https://theins.ru/en/news/264555), what an infamous lie! 2.- The doubters and traitors [better get Putin’s message](https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/08/23/i-had-a-feeling-he-d-come-to-a-bad-end). 3.- Planting a bomb on a plane with 10 people on board is an act of terrorism. 4.- Planting a bomb on a plane with 10 people on board is a show of strength. 5.- Planting a bomb on a plane with 10 people on board is a sign of weakness. Actually: penta-think. All (and more!) at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/76 "2023-08-29T14:19:08Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > With a bomb, they can blame it on Ukrainian or NATO spies, or some other enemy they can use as an excuse to go after. On Solovyov’s program, the propagandists point the finger at US and UK intelligence agencies for assassinating Prigozhin, but conclude it was Britain: > ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/77 "2023-08-30T09:39:50Z")
Salisbury Cathedral claims another victim… ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/78 "2023-08-30T11:05:55Z")
I call BS right here!!! If it were the brits, there is no doubt they’d have off’d Prigo … with TEA! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/79 "2023-08-30T13:07:30Z")
I’m thinking if it were the UK there would have been somewhere a smartly-dressed gent wearing an awesome watch, who’d have made a pithy quip about “he didn’t give it the right spin” or something like that immediately after the cratering. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988/80 "2023-08-30T17:50:07Z")
I had to re-read your post as I HONESTLY read the last word as “ **catering** ” stirred, not shaken … this will get you breakin’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-prigozhin-is-down-before-putin/988988.md?page=5)