# So Russia has invaded Ukraine - or not? {It Has as of 2/24/2022} **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947 "2022-02-22T13:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/21 "2022-02-22T21:15:47Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > They could have sold/given a lot more sophisticated tactical weapons than they did or they could have not required Ukraine to give up its nukes. That was decades before Crimea. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/22 "2022-02-22T21:20:37Z")
As is Poland, bordering the Kaliningrad Oblast. It’s that odd little separated piece of Russia on the Baltic Sea, which was created to give Russia a port on the Baltic that remains ice-free in winter, unlike St. Petersburg. Hey, that gives me an idea… ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/23 "2022-02-22T21:22:29Z")
That’s true and I agree isn’t relevant to what’s happening today. However, in hindsight, the West could have done a lot more to help Ukraine rid itself of Russian-backed separatists. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/24 "2022-02-22T21:27:28Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > However, in hindsight, the West could have done a lot more to help Ukraine rid itself of Russian-backed separatists. Uh, like ethnic cleansing? ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/25 "2022-02-22T21:34:30Z")
I didn’t suggest they get rid of all ethnic Russians. Just the ones trying to break away from Ukraine and form their own country that would be closely aligned with Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/26 "2022-02-22T21:39:15Z")
It’ll be interesting to see if this tips Sweden and Finland over the edge to joining NATO. The argument of “not enraging the Russians” appears to be null and void, now. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/27 "2022-02-22T21:40:51Z")
Could you ask him where he thinks Kaliningrad should belong based on history? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/28 "2022-02-22T21:46:16Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Just the ones trying to break away from Ukraine and form their own country that would be closely aligned with Russia. The entire country was aligned with Russia until the last decade, thus the relatively recent rise of viable separatist movements. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/29 "2022-02-22T23:01:22Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > As is Poland, bordering the Kaliningrad Oblast. It’s that odd little separated piece of Russia on the Baltic Sea, which was created to give Russia a port on the Baltic that remains ice-free in winter, unlike St. Petersburg. > > Hey, that gives me an idea… Is that in writing? Climate change… Gulf of Finland ice-free year after year… do widzenia, we’ll do without ya. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/30 "2022-02-23T23:35:33Z")
Pretty much how the US expanded across North America. Of course, that was a while back. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/31 "2022-02-24T05:21:24Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > didn’t Ukraine get additional territory under Kruschev (he was Ukrainian by birth, wasn’t he) when he was premier? Indeed, Crimea was lumped into the Ukraine SSR for mostly administrative reasons AIUI. Not sure about those eastern regions; my podcast on the Russian Revolution isn’t quite up to that point! To the OP: as I type [Russia is officially invading Ukraine proper](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/russia-attacks-ukraine-news-vladimir-putin-zelenskiy-russian-invasion) “for defensive reasons”. Declared war aim is to demilitarise it - _and_ denazify it! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/32 "2022-02-24T09:30:09Z")
So, we have the answer to OP’s original title question: “So Russia has invaded Ukraine - or not?” Has. ETA: New thread for this in MPSIMS, as it’s now a “current event”: > [@Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine/960037): > > It has started. Artillery attacks across the border on – so far – military installations. [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-orders-military-operations-ukraine-demands-kyiv-forces-surrender-2022-02-24/)[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html)[USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/23/russia-ukraine-invasion-crisis-update/6906567001/) A military analyst on CNN said they are likely probing for the weakest spots before moving in the main forces and that there will be a lot of urban fighting, the kind nobody wants to be involved in. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/33 "2022-02-24T11:24:36Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I mean … it’s time we explain to Conservatives that the Latin Americans living undocumented in the US are on a ‘peacekeeping mission.’ I agree completely. Though probably not for the same reason. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/34 "2022-02-24T13:04:58Z")
Well Putin is going straight for Keiv. Biden’s intelligence briefings were correct. Imho NATO better take this very seriously. I don’t believe this will be limited to only Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/35 "2022-02-24T14:20:35Z")
We (the West) may not be able to avoid an actual war. From what I’ve read and heard the last couple of days, sanctions will have no effect. This is sickening. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/36 "2022-02-24T14:28:04Z")
Without any provocation, a sovereign nation has invaded another sovereign nation in Europe. This is a big deal. I’m a bit surprised that this thread (or a different one) isn’t moving a mile a minute. I thought the comments would be hundreds an hour. Maybe there’s another thread I don’t know about? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/37 "2022-02-24T14:30:18Z")
Closed on February 24, 2022, 2:30pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947/38 "2022-02-24T14:30:32Z")
There are 2 or 3 other threads. In fact, I’m going to close this one and point to the other 2 major ones. In GD, invasion starts around here: > [@Russia may be about to invade Ukraine. {Russia has invaded as of Feb 24-2022}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/838): > > Kyiv getting bombed at the outset. Probably going to try to take the capital with attacks from Belarus. Big big trouble. In MPSIMS: > [@Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine/960037): > > It has started. Artillery attacks across the border on – so far – military installations. [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-orders-military-operations-ukraine-demands-kyiv-forces-surrender-2022-02-24/)[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html)[USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/23/russia-ukraine-invasion-crisis-update/6906567001/) A military analyst on CNN said they are likely probing for the weakest spots before moving in the main forces and that there will be a lot of urban fighting, the kind nobody wants to be involved in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-russia-has-invaded-ukraine-or-not-it-has-as-of-2-24-2022/959947.md?page=1)