# So, say that North Korea actually carries out its nuclear threat **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177 "2016-03-07T04:54:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/81 "2016-03-08T14:43:18Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Your estimate of the damage is similar to my guess. I think it’s very sad but also likely very true. > > **“I don’t think there are enough doctors to treat all of the injured for something like this.”** Unfortunately, also very true. > May I ask you, what is your opinion of the destructive nature of a modern bomb when detonated at ground level versus at some level above the city. > > Would such a bomb cause much greater damage if it was placed in someone’s basement and detonated? Or in a building on some floor high above the ground floor? > > Would there be a significant difference in the damage if it were detonated indoors vs. out of doors? [Airbursts](http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq5.html#nfaq5.4) cause the most damage. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/82 "2016-03-08T14:46:25Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > We need to remember that “nuke” \<\> “strategic nuke”. > > The most worrisome weapon the North has is not its crude, low-yield nukes - it is the 13,000 heavy artillery along the DMZ. > I think it rather certain that both the ROK and the US have worked out plans to neutralize those guns. > I would not be surprised to learn that those plans involve small-medium nukes\* - they DO take out people very, very well, and those guns need people to load them. > And a medium sized one on a cruise missile into the tunnels used to test the NK nukes would be a good idea. > > What I’d like to see is the PRC’s plans to take down its “good friend” across the river. > > These days, I’m suspecting they might be regretting getting involved. Consolations prize: the DPRK has a mountain of rare earth metals. > > - > - at one point at least, the US had nukes in artillery shells Yes. That is an excellent point. Can you tell us what you would recommend doing to prevent a big disaster? I’d really like to know that. Also, can you give us your opinioin as to what an average family should do to help protect themselves and perhaps come through such a disaster? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/83 "2016-03-08T14:48:29Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Then you should go back to the link I posted which allows you to pick the site and the size of the nuclear weapon (with about 20 useful examples including the last 3 NK tests) and see what happens. > > Or, Gray Ghost just reposted it. I want you to know that I really appreciate hearing from you. Your information is good and I just wish that most citizens knew just what you have told us here in this forum. Thank you. We all should be grateful to you for this quality information. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/84 "2016-03-08T14:50:15Z")
I am reminded of one of the most WTF? statements I ever heard on “serious” TV…circa late 80’s IIRC. Some big name talking head reporter (Ted Koppel I think) was interviewing some “expert” (though his upcoming statement makes one wonder) about the dangers of some random terrorist group getting hold of a nuke. At the time this was sorta getting on the radar as the new big thing to worry about. At some point he makes a statement along the lines of “a properly placed nuclear weapon could topple the World Trade Center”. First…no shit. Second, ummmmm the “toppling” is gonna be the least of your problems. I think my brain actually locked up for a moment when hearing that one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/85 "2016-03-08T15:14:32Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Your estimate of the damage is similar to my guess. I think it’s very sad but also likely very true. > > **“I don’t think there are enough doctors to treat all of the injured for something like this.”** Unfortunately, also very true. No, that isn’t true. North Korea does not have the capability to inflict a strike on the US that would exceed our capability to recover from it. North Korea does not have the capability to inflict a strike against anyone, anywhere, that would prevent their instant destruction as a government. They could nuke Seoul, and that would be a horrid disaster for South Korea. This would not prevent the South Korean and American forces from completely destroying North Korea in a few weeks. They might, sometime in the future, be able to nuke Tokyo, and that would ensure their complete destruction in a few weeks, by South Korea, the US, and (possibly) even China. > [@](#): > > May I ask you, what is your opinion of the destructive nature of a modern bomb when detonated at ground level versus at some level above the city. > > Would such a bomb cause much greater damage if it was placed in someone’s basement and detonated? Or in a building on some floor high above the ground floor? > > Would there be a significant difference in the damage if it were detonated indoors vs. out of doors? To answer your questions in order, detonations in the air are more destructive than ground-level, as **beowulff** ’s cite shows. However, North Korea does not have any modern bombs, they have only fairly clumsy older models. Also, North Korea does not have the capability to deliver an airburst against the US. Also, an airburst against a major US city would not decapitate the US or prevent the inevitable destruction of the current rulers of North Korea. In answer to your next two questions, it would make relatively little difference if the bomb where in a basement or indoors vs. outdoors. What you need to understand is that any use of a nuke by North Korea against the US is the last act that North Korea would take on earth. Launching nukes would trigger a military-to-milltary confrontation between NK and the US. In any such confrontation, the US is absolutely invincible. Nuking Seattle, or Alaska, or Seoul, will not change that. Further threats will not save you. The UN will not save you. China will not save you. Nuke us, and you die. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/86 "2016-03-08T19:25:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nuke us, and you die. > Regards, > > Shodan I can’t help but get a chuckle from the way you signed your post. That’s just funny. I can’t help but to LOL. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/87 "2016-03-09T04:57:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The idea of us nuking their launch facility(ies) and top 2 or 3 HQ bunkers with relatively precise mid-yield weapons would be on the table from moment one. And with rapid reaction being the primary driver for which systems get chosen to implement the attack. There are SLBMs somewhere in the Pacific that probably just need to receive the message “Attack plan R ASAP.” After that it goes pretty quickly. I agree that with the current questions about the ability of NK to launch a nuclear strike, them proving that ability would put tremendous pressure on the US to launch a strike knocking out their ability to launch a second attack ASAP as well as to prevent them from using their artillery on Seoul. There isn’t a need to defer to China on the treatment of NK. This isn’t a silly game, it’s crossed over into the unthinkable and the US would do everything within its power to decapitate the leadership and military as soon as possible. The last thing the US would want to do is to invite China to take the lead. That would give China too much power and make them even more insufferable in the South China Seas. The US has to do this one. China was unable to control its client state and doesn’t get to make a fuss. Japan would go nuclear, around six months or so, according to what is generally thought about their abilities. The strike wouldn’t have to even target them, the government would cite the need to protect themselves. Rebuilding NK would be devastating, for whoever had that responsibility, but most likely SK. It would put them back 50 years in progress, though. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/88 "2016-03-09T14:12:47Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > There isn’t a need to defer to China on the treatment of NK. This isn’t a silly game, it’s crossed over into the unthinkable and the US would do everything within its power to decapitate the leadership and military as soon as possible. > > The last thing the US would want to do is to invite China to take the lead. That would give China too much power and make them even more insufferable in the South China Seas. The US has to do this one. China was unable to control its client state and doesn’t get to make a fuss. Agreed. The US and South Korea would do all the military heavy lifting. They would inform China that it was going to happen, probably simultaneously with making it happen, so China can handle/prevent the flood of North Korean refugees across their border, and the US will politely request that China hand over Kim and his cronies if such try to flee to China. “Politely request” in the sense of “let’s be diplomatic about this but you don’t get to say No”. The US is not going to fuck around with this. If North Korea strikes against South Korea, either with nukes or conventionally, South Korea will strike back and destroy North Korea with the full cooperation and assistance of the US. If North Korea strikes against the US, the US will strike back and destroy North Korea, with the full cooperation and assistance of South Korea. It will be a horrible disaster for everyone. It would be worst for North Korea. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/89 "2016-03-09T14:19:14Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I can’t help but get a chuckle from the way you signed your post. > > That’s just funny. I can’t help but to LOL. You. Can’t. Be. Serious. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/90 "2016-03-29T03:34:31Z")
IMHO, if NK does attack SK in any minor way, the appropriate response would be to ask China to eliminate the ruler of NK and to make it clear they will wipe out the military of NK if there is any resistance. then, set back and wait for reform. If no reform, march in and take over. A ‘major’ attack? Again, ask China to squash NK like a bug. Why? Because China does not want the US or its allies to operate militarily in their quadrant. They would rather be the disciplinarian for their area and demonstrate that the US presence there is unneeded. I know this sounds very strange today, but, folks, long term, a friendly relationship with China and between China and all its trading partners is the key to world peace. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/91 "2016-03-29T03:36:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, that isn’t true. North Korea does not have the capability to inflict a strike on the US that would exceed our capability to recover from it. > > North Korea does not have the capability to inflict a strike against anyone, anywhere, that would prevent their instant destruction as a government. They could nuke Seoul, and that would be a horrid disaster for South Korea. This would not prevent the South Korean and American forces from completely destroying North Korea in a few weeks. They might, sometime in the future, be able to nuke Tokyo, and that would ensure their complete destruction in a few weeks, by South Korea, the US, and (possibly) even China. To answer your questions in order, detonations in the air are more destructive than ground-level, as **beowulff** ’s cite shows. However, North Korea does not have any modern bombs, they have only fairly clumsy older models. Also, North Korea does not have the capability to deliver an airburst against the US. Also, an airburst against a major US city would not decapitate the US or prevent the inevitable destruction of the current rulers of North Korea. > > In answer to your next two questions, it would make relatively little difference if the bomb where in a basement or indoors vs. outdoors. > > What you need to understand is that any use of a nuke by North Korea against the US is the last act that North Korea would take on earth. Launching nukes would trigger a military-to-milltary confrontation between NK and the US. In any such confrontation, the US is absolutely invincible. Nuking Seattle, or Alaska, or Seoul, will not change that. > > Further threats will not save you. The UN will not save you. China will not save you. Nuke us, and you die. > > Regards, > Shodan nuke us? Hell, attack any of our assets or those of our partners in the area and you die. End of story. give China a chance to be our agency of destruction of NK’s leaders. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/92 "2016-03-29T04:05:43Z")
I’ve googled it, but I can’t find it. Can somebody direct me to a cite for North Korea ever having issued these so-called “threatened nuclear preemptive strikes”? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/93 "2016-03-29T04:27:09Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I’ve googled it, but I can’t find it. Can somebody direct me to a cite for North Korea ever having issued these so-called “threatened nuclear preemptive strikes”? > **[North Korea Threatens Nuclear Preemptive Strike Amid US Exercises With the South](https://abcnews.go.com/International/north-korea-threatens-nuclear-preemptive-strike-amid-us/story?id=37465731)** > > The Pentagon calls North Korean's response "unhelpful." > **[North Korea threatens nuclear strike over U.S.-South Korean exercises | CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/06/asia/north-korea-preemptive-nuclear-strike-threat/index.html)** > > North Korea warned it would make a “preemptive and offensive nuclear strike” in response to joint U.S.-South Korean military exercises that began Monday. [http://news.yahoo.com/n-korea-threatens-pre-emptive-nuclear-strike-south-221951719.html](http://news.yahoo.com/n-korea-threatens-pre-emptive-nuclear-strike-south-221951719.html) > **[North Korea Threatens Pre-emptive Nuclear Strike](https://www.voanews.com/a/north-korea-threatens-pre-emptive-nuclear-strike/3222625.html)** > > The threat comes as US and South Korean forces begin their largest joint exercises ever conducted ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/94 "2016-03-29T04:42:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > [North Korea Threatens Nuclear Preemptive Strike Amid US Exercises With the South - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/International/north-korea-threatens-nuclear-preemptive-strike-amid-us/story?id=37465731) > > [http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/06/asia/north-korea-preemptive-nuclear-strike-threat/index.html](http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/06/asia/north-korea-preemptive-nuclear-strike-threat/index.html) > > [Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](http://news.yahoo.com/n-korea-threatens-pre-emptive-nuclear-strike-south-221951719.html) > > [North Korea Threatens Pre-emptive Nuclear Strike](http://www.voanews.com/content/north-korea-threatens-pre-emptive-nuclear-strike/3222625.html) I’ll just take the first one. "North Korea’s National Defense Commission said in a statement, “If we push the buttons to annihilate the enemies even right now, all bases of provocations will be reduced to seas in flames and ashes in a moment.” Sorry, not a threat to actually do it preemptively. Just a statement of readiness and capacity, in the event of provocation. Are the other three similar? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/95 "2016-03-29T04:50:45Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I’ll just take the first one. "North Korea’s National Defense Commission said in a statement, “If we push the buttons to annihilate the enemies even right now, all bases of provocations will be reduced to seas in flames and ashes in a moment.” Sorry, not a threat to actually do it preemptively. Just a statement of readiness and capacity, in the event of provocation. Are the other three similar? The other 3 links all involve the word “preemptive.” For all the trouble it took you to type that comment, you could have just clicked on them. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/96 "2016-03-29T05:26:31Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The other 3 links all involve the word “preemptive.” > > For all the trouble it took you to type that comment, you could have just clicked on them. I didn’t type that comment. I copy/pasted it directly from the link provided. Then the other three should have been the only ones offered. My next question is, Why would killing tens of millions of blameless Koreans be anywhere near the top of the list of possible responses? Besides “For their own good”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/97 "2016-03-29T07:14:00Z")
Why are you all assuming that it would be America that would be reacting? Russia shares a land border with North Korea and this would be just the excuse Putin needs to show that he’s both a hard man and a good global citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/98 "2016-03-29T09:46:55Z")
Because China and Russia would rather let a petty tyrant get away with murder than spark a flood of 20 million North Korean refugees across their border. They are betting the US will think twice about nuclear retaliation within the Chinese sphere of influence. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/99 "2016-03-29T11:29:21Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > IMHO, if NK does attack SK in any minor way, the appropriate response would be to ask China to eliminate the ruler of NK and to make it clear they will wipe out the military of NK if there is any resistance. then, set back and wait for reform. If no reform, march in and take over. > > A ‘major’ attack? Again, ask China to squash NK like a bug. > > Why? Because China does not want the US or its allies to operate militarily in their quadrant. They would rather be the disciplinarian for their area and demonstrate that the US presence there is unneeded. > > I know this sounds very strange today, but, folks, long term, a friendly relationship with China and between China and all its trading partners is the key to world peace. Give China first crack and a time frame. “We happily offer to China the first 24 hours of resolution to our mutual problem in the hopes that a very big lesson can be taught.” First crack is best of all worlds and it helps stabilize the region. The time frame means that this is a Very limited time opportunity and that we won’t sit around forever on, “We’re still waiting for a decision.” If China does nothing, send a polite cable to Beijing notifying them that the option has expired and thanking them for their consideration. Then strike NK fast, hard, and decisively… holding nothing back. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177/100 "2016-03-29T12:30:22Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > If China does nothing, send a polite cable to Beijing notifying them that the option has expired and thanking them for their consideration. > > Then strike NK fast, hard, and decisively… holding nothing back. How do you imagine China will respond to that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-say-that-north-korea-actually-carries-out-its-nuclear-threat/748177.md?page=6)