# So... shall we make fun of Ashlee Simpson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250 "2005-01-05T18:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rex_fenestrarum/32/7265_2.png) [@Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Fenestrarum)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/41 "2005-01-06T20:58:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > People with talent ARE more worthy of success, and so are people who work hard. Yes, but how are we defining “talent”? Pure musical ability? Because that won’t work. There are tens of thousands of people playing in cover bands in bars across America that are technically quite proficient at playing the guitar or drums\*, yet don’t have a creative bone in their bodies. I had a good friend in high school that could play _anything_ on guitar, be it Andrés Segovia or Yngwie Malmsteen. But the poor kid couldn’t _write_ anything of his own worth a damn. More than once, I sat in while he toiled away for hours and came up with nothing. So while being able to sing or play a musical instrument is a pre-requisite to being a musician, it’s not the only thing. On the other hand, you’ve got people that lack musical talent but have creativity. One of my favorite bands - Saint Etienne - was founded by two childhood friends that loved music but couldn’t much play any instruments. Computers really gave these guys a start, even if they ended up learning to play guitar and piano along the way. So what these guys have is not a lot of “pure talent”, but a lot of style and creativity. The same thing goes for one of R.E.M.'s favorite bands - Pylon. They decided to be a band before they even knew how to play any instruments. Fans of the Athens, GA music scene might even know the story about how they were all sitting around one day trying to figure out which instruments they wanted to play. Again, these people were not very good “musicians”, yet had a certain… something that made them popular. I guess I’m sort of torn about what you mean by “talent”. I’ve known a lot of people in bands that knew their stuff, but I don’t think that because they’re good with a guitar that they’re somehow automatically entitled to more success than someone that’s not quite as good but actually has a cool style, or something to say. The worst part about this post is that I don’t want to argue with you. I _hate_ most of the crap on the radio these days, not so much because I’m an old fart, but because so much of what’s popular seems to be made in a factory, not in someone’s heart. I live in Charlotte, so whenever Clay Aiken takes a dump it makes the news and it makes me sick. Sure, the guy might have a nice voice, but it just seems to me that the record company had everything about his record ready to go and could have photoshopped whoever they wanted onto the cover and had anyone sing over the pre-recorded tracks. And sure, the guy might have a nice voice, but his music would put John Tesh to sleep. - - There are also far more that really, really suck, but that’s another rant. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/42 "2005-01-06T21:14:28Z")
**Rex** , I would hardly call Pylon popular! Talented, yes, but popular? (This is coming from someone who thought they were the world’s last surviving Pylon fan–I had the privelege of seeing them twice!) And I reallly think you’re splitting hairs in your post. You actually answer your own question: > [@Rex](#): > > Again, these people were not very good “musicians”, yet had a certain… something Talent is like pornography–I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it. I saw Ashlee Simpson. She ain’t it. We agree on that. Judging by the reaction of the crowd at the Orange Bowl (hardly a crowd that was selected for musical sophistication), about 70,000 people agree with us, as well. And yet, there she is, getting paid the big bucks, and Guided By Voices are retiring having never made it out of the van, despite prodigous musical output over more than a decade, dozens of great rock songs, and legendary live shows. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/43 "2005-01-06T21:26:31Z")
I was passing through the living room with a laundry basket while my husband channel surfed. He stopped on Ashlee’s performance, dumbstruck, I think, by its sheer awfulness. Catching a glimpse, and hearing the screech, I gasped, “Jesus Christ, what the fuck happened to Joan Jett?” Then I realized who she was. I almost felt bad for her . . . It was like watching a bitchy acquaintance get drunk and make an ass of herself-- you cringe, but secretly think she kind of deserved it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/44 "2005-01-06T21:36:39Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > Talent is like pornography– And, ironically, those without the former sometimes wind up in the latter! Paging Ashlee Simpson…Bob Guccione on line 3… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/45 "2005-01-06T21:37:58Z")
> [@Rex Fenestrarum](#): > > Pure musical ability? […] So while being able to sing or play a musical instrument is a pre-requisite to being a musician, it’s not the only thing. I agree it would be a mistake to define talent so narrowly. Which is why I didn’t say that was how I did it. 😉 > [@](#): > > I guess I’m sort of torn about what you mean by “talent”. I’ve known a lot of people in bands that knew their stuff, but I don’t think that because they’re good with a guitar that they’re somehow automatically entitled to more success than someone that’s not quite as good but actually has a cool style, or something to say. The ability to express something is a _different_ talent from instrumental virtuosity, but I wouldn’t say that it’s lesser. I don’t think my post came across that way. ---
**Author:** ![Boopsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@Boopsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boopsie)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/46 "2005-01-06T21:54:21Z")
Put me in the group of people who feels sorry for her. Okay people, I know that she’s not the most talented person on the planet at all. BUT you know what? I LIKE most of the songs she’s put out. I like Shadow, I like Autobiography, I like Pieces of Me. So what if she can’t sing them well in person… I think it was really nasty of the crowd to BOO her about it. I can’t even imagine how awful I would feel if a crowd boo’d me off the stage. Anyway I can’t sing her songs well in person either, and probably wouldn’t be able to make them sound good even on just a CD. And from what everyone is saying, part of her problem was that she couldn’t hear herself. I can’t even imagine what my untrained voice would sound like if I couldn’t even hear myself. EEK! It just seems like “people” always need somebody to pick on. And the last couple of months it has been Ashlee Simpson. Maybe I’ll buy her cd JUST BECAUSE I think she’s being picked on. So there! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Big\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Big\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Big_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/47 "2005-01-06T23:00:40Z")
i caught the last 10 seconds of her ‘performance’ on the link someone provided above. … Oh…my…god…!! I have never heard anything this bad in a long time. I’ve heard better sounds come from my cat when I accidently stepped on him. What are they thinking?? So she’s got a famous sister with big boobs and we’re subjected to this??? Thanks a lot record companies. I know you’re only in it for the money, but c’mon. And i wonder how many unsigned bands that could blow her out of the water remain unsigned while the record companies stick her down our throat. ---
**Author:** ![Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rex_fenestrarum/32/7265_2.png) [@Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Fenestrarum)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/48 "2005-01-06T23:13:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The ability to express something is a _different_ talent from instrumental virtuosity, but I wouldn’t say that it’s lesser. I don’t think my post came across that way. Well, that’s why I should have just asked you instead of writing two rambling posts about it. There _are_ people out there (you know who you are) that believe that musical ability _is_ the only true measure of one’s talent. What a joyless bunch those are - usually frustrated musicians that are bitter at the world for not recognizing their “genius” (whether they actually _are_ gifted or not). [QUOTE=vibrotronica] Rex, I would hardly call Pylon popular! Talented, yes, but popular?\* Well, I was thinking about a band that started with _zero_ talent and went on to become something special. Also, I’m originally from Atlanta, so my perception of Pylon’s popularity _is_ probably skewed. You know that they played a show **this week** at the 40 Watt? I wish I coulda gone! ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/49 "2005-01-07T00:17:01Z")
So does anyone know what she did once the crowd started booing and the camera cut away? ---
**Author:** ![LeRoi\_Lezard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@LeRoi\_Lezard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeRoi_Lezard)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/50 "2005-01-07T00:41:55Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > It was like watching a bitchy acquaintance get drunk and make an ass of herself-- you cringe, but secretly think she kind of deserved it. This is my favorite comment so far! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/51 "2005-01-07T00:57:14Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > So does anyone know what she did once the crowd started booing and the camera cut away? Maybe she did her “monkey hoe-down” dance? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250/52 "2005-01-07T03:46:28Z")
Actually I didn’t see Simpson’s performance as being that much worse than the two that proceeded her. I realize that Kelly Clarkson’s number was torpedoed by technical problems, but even so, it was just so much more of that prepackaged music. Really the same could be said for about every one of those over-produced half time or opening ceremony shows I’ve ever seen. They’re all the same. Prefab entertainers singing songs written by the marketing department, strutting all over the stage with contrived passion, while fireworks shoot off a random intervals while the cameras pull back to show a field crawling with gyrating ants. I’m 55 and not exactly in the target audience for the show’s producers, so I don’t claim to be a very good judge of these things, but was Simpson’s performance really that much worse than all the others? I thought the boos were more the result of some residual hostility of her lip syncing fiasco than her actual performance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-shall-we-make-fun-of-ashlee-simpson/283250.md?page=2)