# So, should we get used to saying, Inmate Christie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 19, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234 "2014-01-19T23:38:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/21 "2014-01-22T18:16:28Z")
Interesting (to me, anyway) take on the Hoboken angle from [the Rude Pundit](http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/01/hoboken-mayor-dawn-zimmer-will-kick.html), who describes his past history with the mayor and his assessment of her character: > [@](#): > > Here’s what the Rude Pundit believes about Dawn Zimmer: She is as compassionate and honest as they come in the sordid world of Jersey politics. She is really friggin’ smart, scary smart, so she would not have told her story unless she thought through the consequences, especially of talking to the U.S. Attorney. And she is tough. You don’t know what she took on to win mayor in Hoboken. We’re talking an entrenched political culture that thought it could destroy her, and she went right at them and, eventually, won. The old machine is fading fast, dying off and moving on. Zimmer kicked its ass. Christie underestimated her and thought he could roll over her. Instead, she’s put on her ass-kicking shoes again. > > And here’s what the Rude Pundit thinks happened in that Shop-Rite parking lot on May 13, 2013: Lieutenant Governor Kim Guadagno more than likely took Zimmer aside to talk to her about her requests for a big piece of Sandy aid. Guadagno probably thought she was having a friendly conversation about The Way Things Work. Zimmer had to move the Rockefeller Group project forward in order to get Christie’s blessing on the Sandy cash. Guadagno probably thought she was doing Zimmer a favor, schooling someone who perhaps was unclear on how the back scratching worked. You get that sense when Zimmer says Guadagno told her, “I know it’s not right – these things should not be connected – but they are.” ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/22 "2014-01-22T21:34:33Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Interesting (to me, anyway) take on the Hoboken angle from [the Rude Pundit](http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2014/01/hoboken-mayor-dawn-zimmer-will-kick.html), who describes his past history with the mayor and his assessment of her character: I don’t particularly care about Chris Christie or Dawn Zimmer. But coming forward with an even more emotionally sensational scandal when a political opponent appears wounded (even, judging from the triumphalism on these boards, down and out) does not strike me as an example of “ass-kicking shoes” and a woman who nobody rolls over. It sounds like a scavenger who can tell that the prey is wounded, unable to defend itself, and wants a easy kill. Which isn’t to say that it isn’t true, but the story isn’t really making me view Zimmer as a crusader against corruption in politics. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/23 "2014-01-22T22:10:17Z")
Falchion, I think that you underestimate Zimmer. I lived in Hoboken from 2002 to 2012, so I saw the reform group in town go from downtrodden minority to controlling the mayor’s office, the city council, and the school board. When reform started trying to get more of a voice in local politics, over 80% of the area power was in the hands of mostly corrupt old guard political types and their enablers. This includes city, county, and state government, as well as local labor unions including police, fire, and schools. Since Zimmer became mayor, she has endured a nonstop effort from that corrupt old guard political base to get rid of her and her reform buddies. This includes personal smears, a city council minority that would gladly bankrupt the city to make her look bad, a group that stole her emails for over a year to be used to help in negotiating a union contract (as well as other reasons), and many other things. I could probably fill pages on this topic alone. If Zimmer were to raise a ruckus every time someone from the corrupt side of Jersey politics did something to her, she would never be silent. She picks her battles when and where she can. Many of the problems in Hoboken are disappearing with time, though not nearly quickly enough. There is hope that a number of state and federal investigations will take a bunch of people away in hand cuffs. But Hoboken is getting much less corrupt than it probably ever has been, but it is a slow process hindered by the politics in the rest of the county and state. Disclaimer: I have donated money to Zimmer’s campaigns, as well as voted for her. I have met her only once at a fundraiser at her house. A number of friends are active in the reform group in Hoboken. I still like to follow the Hoboken politics for its entertainment value. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/24 "2014-01-22T22:52:45Z")
> [@mcgato](#): > > Falchion, I think that you underestimate Zimmer. I lived in Hoboken from 2002 to 2012, so I saw the reform group in town go from downtrodden minority to controlling the mayor’s office, the city council, and the school board. When reform started trying to get more of a voice in local politics, over 80% of the area power was in the hands of mostly corrupt old guard political types and their enablers. This includes city, county, and state government, as well as local labor unions including police, fire, and schools. > > Since Zimmer became mayor, she has endured a nonstop effort from that corrupt old guard political base to get rid of her and her reform buddies. This includes personal smears, a city council minority that would gladly bankrupt the city to make her look bad, a group that stole her emails for over a year to be used to help in negotiating a union contract (as well as other reasons), and many other things. I could probably fill pages on this topic alone. > > If Zimmer were to raise a ruckus every time someone from the corrupt side of Jersey politics did something to her, she would never be silent. She picks her battles when and where she can. Many of the problems in Hoboken are disappearing with time, though not nearly quickly enough. There is hope that a number of state and federal investigations will take a bunch of people away in hand cuffs. But Hoboken is getting much less corrupt than it probably ever has been, but it is a slow process hindered by the politics in the rest of the county and state. > > Disclaimer: I have donated money to Zimmer’s campaigns, as well as voted for her. I have met her only once at a fundraiser at her house. A number of friends are active in the reform group in Hoboken. I still like to follow the Hoboken politics for its entertainment value. I may very well undestimate her. I don’t know anything about her and I’ve never (intentionally) been to Hoboken. I’m perfectly willing to believe that she’s doing an excellent job and, frankly, focusing on local corruption that you can deal with rather than taking on state-level officials makes a lot of sense to me. I respect pragmatism. All I’m saying is that her decision to come out about Christie (whether the story is true, false, or misunderstood) does not give me the sense of bad-assery that the posted link suggests. Since every discussion about Christie requires some body-shaming, it feels like she’s tossing a harpoon in an already harpooned whale and we’re supposed to be impressed at her brave huntsmanship. ---
**Author:** ![twhitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@twhitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twhitt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/25 "2014-01-23T00:47:36Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > All I’m saying is that her decision to come out about Christie (whether the story is true, false, or misunderstood) does not give me the sense of bad-assery that the posted link suggests. Since every discussion about Christie requires some body-shaming, it feels like she’s tossing a harpoon in an already harpooned whale and we’re supposed to be impressed at her brave huntsmanship. Hyperbole and unnecessary language aside, there’s some truth here. You see this often. A public figure is accused of wrongdoing, and suddenly the story expands from one person making a claim into a long list of people making similar claims. Examples abound when it’s some sort of sensational story about extramarital affairs, workplace harassment, or pedophilia. The first victim provides the justification for, and cover for, other victims to make their grievances public. I think there’s a perception that the me-too’s in the story lacked integrity or temerity to stand up against a powerful person or organization. Still, they may have legitimate grievances, and aside from healthy skepticism, we shouldn’t denigrate the second victim to stand up. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/26 "2014-01-23T13:44:14Z")
> [@twhitt](#): > > Hyperbole and unnecessary language aside, there’s some truth here. > > You see this often. A public figure is accused of wrongdoing, and suddenly the story expands from one person making a claim into a long list of people making similar claims. Examples abound when it’s some sort of sensational story about extramarital affairs, workplace harassment, or pedophilia. The first victim provides the justification for, and cover for, other victims to make their grievances public. I think there’s a perception that the me-too’s in the story lacked integrity or temerity to stand up against a powerful person or organization. Still, they may have legitimate grievances, and aside from healthy skepticism, we shouldn’t denigrate the second victim to stand up. I agree with everything you’ve said here (except the part about “hyperbole and unncessary language”). I was reacting to the post about how Zimmer was putting her “ass-kicking” shoes on and how Christie underestimated her and she couldn’t be “rolled over.” I tend to believe that, especially with these sorts of political scandals, there is a credibility problem that arises from waiting until others come forward and piling on (or even just waiting and coming forward later). It’s aggravated where, as here, the second claimaint is a political opponent who appears when the initial story isn’t gaining sufficient traction and presents a similar, but worse, claim. But that’s just my distrust of politicians. I’m absolutely willing to believe the “me-toos” (and I certainly believe that people who do questionable things tend to do them more than once). I don’t mean to “denigrate” Zimmer; I’m not just convinced that coming forward when Christie is vulnerable is an example of an “ass-kicking” crusader who won’t take no shit from nobody. I’ve spent too much time on this tangent, becuase I really don’t care about Zimmer one way or another; I was just reacting to that post. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/27 "2014-01-28T09:55:13Z")
[Hoboken?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3C0tr9RE-8) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/28 "2014-01-28T13:22:56Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I tend to believe that, especially with these sorts of political scandals, there is a credibility problem that arises from waiting until others come forward and piling on (or even just waiting and coming forward later). It’s aggravated where, as here, the second claimaint is a political opponent who appears when the initial story isn’t gaining sufficient traction and presents a similar, but worse, claim. But that’s just my distrust of politicians. I’m absolutely willing to believe the “me-toos” (and I certainly believe that people who do questionable things tend to do them more than once). I don’t mean to “denigrate” Zimmer; I’m not just convinced that coming forward when Christie is vulnerable is an example of an “ass-kicking” crusader who won’t take no shit from nobody. > > I’ve spent too much time on this tangent, becuase I really don’t care about Zimmer one way or another; I was just reacting to that post. Normally, I’m skeptical of the me-tooers. However, it was well known in NJ politics that you do not cross Chris Christie. Many if not all of the endorsements by Democratic mayors were due to the fact that it was known that bad things happen to cities that don’t conform to Christie’s will. These pent up anecdotes of intimidation and harassment were going to remain untold until the dam burst. A lot of people were just unwilling to believe what a scumbucket he was until the spell was broken. This business about a DA getting fired because he wanted to prosecute one of Christie’s chums- that was known. It was in the NY Times when it happened. But until now, nobody dared do anything. It’s now safe to stand up to the bully. Christie’s days as a presidential candidate are over, his days as governor are numbered, and his days out of prison may be as well. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/29 "2014-01-31T21:35:36Z")
The OP is getting slightly more likely. [The Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/nyregion/christie-bridge.html?_r=0) and the Post are reporting that David Wildstein claims to have evidence that Christie knew about the bridge chaos as it was happening. I personally don’t know when Christie claims to have become aware of the fiasco, but the story suggests he claims he didn’t know until after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/30 "2014-01-31T21:55:15Z")
Christie: “I was tired of trying to lose weight for a presidential run anyway, pass me those Cheetos.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/31 "2014-02-01T02:46:38Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The OP is getting slightly more likely. [The Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/nyregion/christie-bridge.html?_r=0) and the Post are reporting that David Wildstein claims to have evidence that Christie knew about the bridge chaos as it was happening. > > I personally don’t know when Christie claims to have become aware of the fiasco, but the story suggests he claims he didn’t know until after the fact. He was quite emphatic at his marathon presser that he had no knowledge of it until it was over. I want to see what Wildstein has, but it’s going to be quite a while before we do. Looks to me like the US Attorney wants to make darn sure that a) Wildstein has information worthy of getting immunity and b) that there is no way to get it without said immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/32 "2014-02-01T03:38:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He was quite emphatic at his marathon presser that he had no knowledge of it until it was over. > > I want to see what Wildstein has, but it’s going to be quite a while before we do. Looks to me like the US Attorney wants to make darn sure that a) Wildstein has information worthy of getting immunity and b) that there is no way to get it without said immunity. There’s also the question of how Wildstein phrased his position in the letter. It could just be that he’s saying Christie knew about the road block, but not about the political motivations - that is, he believed the traffic story or just didn’t bother to investigate. He still lied at the press conference, but it wouldn’t be nearly as serious a lie. And if he _is_ saying Christie knew about the politics behind it, then he better have some rock solid evidence to back himself up with. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Christie knew exactly what was going on, but I can’t imagine Christie being foolish enough to leave proof (emails, letters, texts, etc) with Wildstein, then proceed to treat him like roadkill at the next press conference. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/33 "2014-02-01T04:03:57Z")
Neither Wildstein nor Kelly have any reason to be loyal to Christie. He threw them under the bus with extreme prejudice- if I was either one of them I’d be hopping mad and be wanting to take him down hard. If both of them testify that Christie knew in advance, then Christie needs a criminal lawyer, if he doesn’t already have one working on it. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/34 "2014-02-01T04:53:42Z")
I’m curious why Wildstein is the only one of these two we have heard anything from. Did I miss something or has Kelly been oddly silent and out of the spotlight? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/35 "2014-02-01T19:56:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He was quite emphatic at his marathon presser that he had no knowledge of it until it was over. > > I want to see what Wildstein has, but it’s going to be quite a while before we do. Looks to me like the US Attorney wants to make darn sure that a) Wildstein has information worthy of getting immunity and b) that there is no way to get it without said immunity. Kinda makes you wonder if he’s going to hold out for immunity _and_ a slot in the Witness Protection Program… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234/36 "2014-02-01T23:22:24Z")
Keep in mind that [Wildstein](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/david-wildstein-they-play-rough) is emphatically not [a reliable source](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/who-is-david-wildstein). He might be getting a bum rap in my links, but methinks it’s best to withhold judgment until the hard evidence is in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-should-we-get-used-to-saying-inmate-christie/679234.md?page=1)