# So Sue Us!( Not happy we shot up your wedding party? Tell it to the judge...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124 "2004-05-20T05:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/121 "2004-05-23T01:56:15Z")
Damn. That should be “Perhaps it WAS a wedding and the military fucked up and is NOW trying to cover up.” -XT ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/122 "2004-05-23T01:59:24Z")
Istand by my insurgent wedding theory. Rebels can fall in love, damnit! Like the FBI or ATF doing a mob hit during a wedding or birthday party (played in slow motion and with emotional music), this was probably a case of right target, bad timing. The simplest answer is that no one is lying, and that their stories can overlap. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/123 "2004-05-23T02:04:05Z")
[QUOTE=Zagadka] I’m curious about this issue (not being snarky, I mean it). By what right did the US free Kuwait from Iraq? What gives the United States “Right of Conquest,” but not Iraq, or for that matter, Germany or Japan? [QUOTE] **Victory** confers right of conquest. Is not the U.S. still sovereign over Puerto Rico? Which was taken from Spain as a prize of war. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/124 "2004-05-23T02:05:57Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > No, Mr. Goth…tg singer’ is dead. But how do you KNOW that the ‘wedding singer’ is dead? Did you know this wedding singer? Who can verify that he was in fact a wedding singer-XT “Well you c’n caaalll me 'Al…” apparently he’s a very famous wedding singer, and he is definitely dead. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/125 "2004-05-23T02:15:50Z")
[MP&HG] No, please! This is meant to be a _happy_ occasion! Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who… [/MP&HG] ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/126 "2004-05-23T02:23:10Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > No, please! This is meant to be a happy occasion! Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who… ROFLMAO! Hopefully she at least had HUGE…tracks of land! -XT ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/127 "2004-05-23T04:43:23Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Anyway, as I said before, there is a lot going on here. Its still unclear exactly what happened. However, I can’t see the military being this stuborn if they didn’t think they had a pretty good case for it NOT being a wedding. On the other hand, we have several Iraqis pretty much stating that it WAS a wedding. So. I’m going to await developments here. > > -XT On the other hand, what you may have are several Iraqis claiming it was a wedding so that their head is not the next one to be whacked. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/128 "2004-05-23T05:31:08Z")
\*\*[Iraqis lose right to sue troops over war crimes](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1222817,00.html) \*\* > [@](#): > > British and American troops are to be granted immunity from prosecution in Iraq after the crucial 30 June handover, undermining claims that the new Iraqi government will have ‘full sovereignty’ over the state. > > Despite widespread ill-feeling about the abuse of prisoners by American forces and allegations of mistreatment by British troops, coalition forces will be protected from any legal action. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/129 "2004-05-23T11:08:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > No, Mr. Goth…they SAY the ‘wedding singer’ is dead. But how do you KNOW that the ‘wedding singer’ is dead? Did you know this wedding singer? Who can verify that he was in fact a wedding singer? Also, was wedding singing ALL he did? I could point at a dead body too and say, ‘That guy was a wedding singer!’ to a reporter.-XT He was Hussein al-Ali, a popular singer in the region, and he was buried in Baghdad last Thursday. Please do your research before spouting off speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/130 "2004-05-23T18:49:00Z")
[Mourners Say Musicians Hussain and Mohaned Al-Ali, Among Dead at Iraqi Wedding US Raid](http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2004%20News%20archives/May/20%20n/Mourners%20Say%20Musicians%20Hussain%20and%20Mohaned%20Al-Ali,%20Among%20Dead%20at%20Iraqi%20Wedding%20US%20Raid.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/131 "2004-05-23T18:56:44Z")
Since I am not surprized of anything these days I forsee that US army bringing out the revelation that he used his reputation as a singer to distribute “forbidden” weapons to the resistence. You ain’t seen nothing yet. As the story of declaring their criminals immune to the Iraqi justice system proves once more. If they think this is going to land quietly they surely still live in their delirium of Conquering the Middle East causing a Domino Effect opeing the Market for the US Capitalism. Well they caused a domino effect indeed. Now just a little bomb on the 'Ali shrine and we have WWIII. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/132 "2004-05-23T23:32:32Z")
I think this one bears really close watching, as maybe where the military simply decides to cast loose of all moorings in reality. They figure, WTF, the facts are so bad, we might as well tell big lies as little ones (I think there’s a tradition for that…) But if so, I’d say it raises the jeopardy to a “free and fair” electioni… ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/133 "2004-05-24T00:11:55Z")
The AP has a video of the wedding. > [@](#): > > RAMADI, Iraq - A videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck. > > The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters. > > “There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration,” Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. “There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too.” > > But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent. [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040523/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/iraq\_attack&cid=540&ncid=716](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack&cid=540&ncid=716) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/134 "2004-05-24T00:34:47Z")
“Bad people have celebrations too…” That’s gotta be the current version of “we had to destroy the village in order to save it”. (as far as summing up the incredible storm of bullshit…) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/135 "2004-05-24T05:23:26Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > The AP has a video of the wedding. > > [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040523/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/iraq\_attack&cid=540&ncid=716](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack&cid=540&ncid=716) I am ashamed of and disgusted with my government. For two days they have been saying there was no evidence of a wedding, and now, once again, they are exposed as bald-faced liars. Our troops are in mortal danger every day they are under the command of such a cadre of lying bastards and their Washington puppet masters. I support the troops, but the command structure is without honor, and should all be sacked and thrown in the stockade. Until such time as the Bush regime is cast out of office, and the miltary command is removed from power, every life lost in the Iraq cesspool will be in vain, and I weep for our soldiers and their families. God have mercy on us all. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/136 "2004-05-24T06:12:53Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > I am ashamed of and disgusted with my government. For two days they have been saying there was no evidence of a wedding, and now, once again, they are exposed as bald-faced liars. The problem with being a cynic these days is that we’re often proven right. ☹ Can’t wait to see the apologists spin _this_ one… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/137 "2004-05-24T06:14:09Z")
There seems to be two possibilities 1. The military hit a smuggling camp for real, and the wedding by mistake, and just are refusing to admit anything about the wedding. 2. The military is lying through its teeth. The wedding video is hours long, and it is said to be possible to identify people in the wedding as corpses after. Conspiracy theory: remember when Bush was so deadset against allowing world courts to try US soldiers for war crimes? Anyone surprised now? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124/138 "2004-05-24T06:49:05Z")
A flashback: from someone that was on Vietnam: [http://www.thememoryhole.org/unacceptable-target.htm](http://www.thememoryhole.org/unacceptable-target.htm) > [@](#): > > I said, “And you want us to wipe out this whole village to get three Vietcong?” How do you know they were Vietcong? Were they armed?" > > He said, “They had on black pajamas.” > > All of the farmers working in the fields had on black pajamas. That was their dress. And they carried tools like rakes and hoes. > > He said, “They were armed.” > > I said, “How do you know they weren’t carrying rakes and hoes?” > > He said, “Don’t argue with me. I’ve got the provincial governor in the back seat, and he says that is a Vietcong village.” > > [Snip] > > [later, after the pilots refused to drop the bombs to the village after seeing evidence to the contrary] > > I went into Squadron Operations and called the Command Center at Seventh air Force and talked to the director, a brigadier general I had served with several years before. I told him what happened. > > He said, “Damn, Cotton, don’t you know what’s going on? That village didn’t pay their taxes. That lieutenant colonel, a provincial commander, is teaching them a lesson.” > > On returning from an interdiction mission several days later, we flew over the target area. The village had been totally destroyed. Nothing but a large, black, burned area remained. I’m sure when the FAC got a fast-mover (high-performance jet) on the target and destroyed the village the report read: Target 100 percent destroyed, body-count 1200 KBA (killed by air) confirmed. > > I’m a grandfather now, and I can’t watch my grandchildren at play or carry them in my arms without thinking of that village in Vietnam. I bring that up, because I do think this could be also happening behind the scenes in Iraq, that the “Intelligence” we got on the field is still as unreliable as the one Chalabi gave to us, and I do think now that some tribe leader found a way to get rid off of a rival tribe. However, I still remain open to the possibility that there was also a terror camp next to the wedding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-sue-us-not-happy-we-shot-up-your-wedding-party-tell-it-to-the-judge/246124.md?page=6)